The Anglo-Arab for sport? Predominantly eventing?

[_Tradewind]

I should mention an interesting stallion standing in B.C., Alchimist, whose dam is AA:

http://canadianwarmbloods.com/stalliondetail.php?horseid=1000287

I went to see him a few years ago; he appealed to me largely because of his AA blood. He is ridden by the owner’s junior/amateur daughter, and seems to have both a very nice type and an excellent temperament!

[vineyridge]

I tried to run down who Wimborn was, and it turns out to have been a breeder in the Netherlands whose name was Van Schothorst, H. per Sport Horse Breed data base. He imported a TB mare from the UK named Winborn Winifred and added her first name to the foals that he bred from her. For the first couple of generations, he bred TBs, then went to AAs, and later seemed to go more in the KWPN direction.

He mostly bred to his own stallions, and also inbred with some of them.

[chector]

And one of the strangest of all, that the near disappearance should take place at precisely the time the genetic worth of the breed to modern eventing should be so apparent… hopefully Bernard Maurel is right and the breed will revive. - Chris

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

That Alchimist stallion IS interesting! Has he produced much? Very very interesting.

It does seem strange they are disappearing, but I guess that’s what happens when breeders are compelled by market forces to outcross to Warmbloods… You have to have breeders committed to maintaining the AA as a standalone breed.

[vineyridge]

I hate the new Horse Telex format. They have cut back enormously in the amount of free information that they give. The linking of competition levels to offspring in their pedigree section doesn’t seem to exist any longer. And the availability of multi-generation (up to twelve, IIRC) is gone as well–at least for free.

But I was going to say that Gagson Wimborn seems to have done well producing for dressage. He’s the damsire of Alchimist.

[Elles]

In the 90’s I had a horse by De Saint Urus d’Olympe. He later was sold to Brazil. In the past we also had Ixion in Holland. It seems in Holland the Anglo Arabian has completely disappeared.

[Elles]

http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/pedigree/25685

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Couldn’t get horsetelex to pull up for me Elles, but found the stallion you mentioned on Sport Horse Database…

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?z=9YGXBt&d=De+saint+urus+d'olympe&x=41&y=7

It made me remember Icare D’Olympe. I briefly looked into getting frozen from him for North America, but was told it wasn’t available. Too bad… is he still breeding in Europe?

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10416031

[vineyridge]

Virginia Tech had a French AA, Baladin D’Oc, who stood there for several years. I think he may be dead now, but they may still have frozen. He was mostly marketed for dressage, IIRC.

Wasn’t there an AA stallion somewhere in South Carolina or thereabouts a few years ago?

[TrueColours]

Baladin D’Or was a lovely stallion and I loved what he was producing!

Laura Wood in FL also has some really nice Anglo’s that she has produced in her breeding program that are available for breeding.

I really think the Anglo’s crossed with Warmbloods and “purpose bred” produce the most incredible offspring. There just aren’t many doing it here - as mentioned, its been an Eastern European and French program with a different type of Sport Arabian that isn’t generally found here …

[Jmarcan]

Sadly there is very little support for athletic pursuits outside of the showring on the part of the Arabian Associations in North America. AHA and CAHR are the registration bodies for Anglos in North America and they did not even see fit to join the international Anglo-Arabian Association…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Baladin D’Oc has passed away. Equine Reproduction Concepts here in Virginia did have some of the remaining frozen doses from him, but when I called about them last year they apparently were spoken for. I might call again though… You never know. He did have a dressage career, but I believe he produced some very nice hunters as well, and a very nice fox hunter gelding I just saw marketed locally.

Laura Wood does have some very interesting horses… In particular a mare by Baladin D’Oc out of a TB mare with lovely bloodlines who she has used quite a bit. I believe the mare in question is around 10 and out and about showing. What pictures I have seen were lovely, and I REALLY hope Laura breeds her and produces something special down the road… a REALLY neat mare.

I wish there was more support for sport bred AAs here in North America. I see things here and there about the Arabian Sport Horse Alliance and different awards programs. And now there have been a few Arab stallions to go through the 70 day test… Though some controversy with Czantiago… But FCF Oberon’s Vanity did VERY well when he went through. Hopefully some nice TB mares get sent his way, and folks get more interested in breeding high quality AAs for sport here in North America. That’s unfortunate to hear about the AHA and CAHR not joining the International Anglo Arabian Association. I dislike trying to figure out registry politics and why multiple organizations exist in the same market and what the different conflicts or overlaps are…

[Elles]

I think Icare is still available but I am not 100% certain.
http://www.gestuet-marbach.de/pb/,Lde/Startseite/Hengste/Icare+D_Olympe+AA

[TrueColours]

AHA and CAHR are the registration bodies for Anglos in North America and they did not even see fit to join the international Anglo-Arabian Association…

Wow. Such a shame … … instead of doing everything they can to advance the breed and increase the awareness and interest in it, they appear to be turning their backs instead … puzzling logic to follow for sure

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Completely agree True Colours.

From what I understand, there are some rules inherent in the Arabian show circuit here in North America that prove problematic for folks using French AA blood, or some of the Shagya.

Personally… I’m interested in Arabs and Anglo Arabs who are competing in the broader sport horse communities, against Warmbloods, and succeeding. Persiflage, Tamarillo (in his day), Bonaparte N, and here in North America, FCF Oberon’s Vanity who came in 4th I believe during his 70 day test, and apparently is going to be competing this year (hopefully above and beyond the Arab show circuit). Querdolan Vitarel was eventing with Bettina Hoy a few years ago…Not sure what he’s doing now. Anyway… it catches my attention when I see blood that is performing and succeeding! These are the stallions I am curious about seeing progeny from, and how they cross on different mares…

I’m exceptionally interested in Arabs, Shagyas and Anglos as sport horses and breeding options… But if a stallion or mare is only competing on a protected and limited show circuit… It’s a negative in my eyes. I can understand that there is a rational and comfort level some Arab folks have for showing only on the Arab circuit… But I would love to see more out and about in open competition.

[vineyridge]

Would you be at all interested in Tamarillo’s clone, Tomatillo?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I am interested in the clone… As well as Gemini, but want to see what happens with their offspring. I’ve seen some interesting articles… That admittedly I am not entirely sure I understand… About some differences that occur in mitochondrial DNA when it comes to clones. Personally, I want to see what these two horses produce… But if they prove to be successful producers in and of themselves, mitochondrial DNA differences aside, I would be quite interested in using Tomatillo in particular.

Frankly though, the mare I am planning on breeding to blood for eventing prospects for the next few years is a better match to Triple Twist or Persiflage… She’s got Chilly Beau and Vantongerloo in her pedigree (,Native Dancer line)… I just wish she was younger so frozen was a more attractive option! We’re doing live cover this season though, and if all goes well, frozen next. I’d love to hear more information on motility with respect to frozen from Persiflage and Querdolan Vitarel from other folks here in North America who have used them…

[allanglos]

I currently own 14 Anglo Arabians. I really like them for hunters and dressage. I don’t do Eventing, but others that have competed do very well. They are athletic, tall, pretty, sensible, and versatile. I am not showing as much as I used to. Getting old. But still manage to get them out some. The last few years, I’ve hacked them at home to keep them in shape, then gone to shows and had junior riders show them for me over fences and do quite well, even with the stallion. Mine range in size from 16.1h to 17.1h. I have also exported homebreds to France and the UAE, so they also appreciate the US bred Anglos.

Here are a few videos so you can see how the Anglo performs:

16.1h stallion with junior rider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2NFTQYD7Y
Hacking before a class:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH9LoOYvhZE
At liberty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3_DwX22zAU

17h black mare first time shown over fences (Junior rider) Baladin d’Oc daughter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj45VK_ajxw

16.1h mare in Training Level with a junior rider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgu0q9V_V7E
And over fences:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg3644snft0

Two year old Anglo gelding. 16h. First time trotting under saddle.
https://youtu.be/AJP6Rpuzcm0

16.2h mare at her first show just to school (Baladin d’Oc daughter). Jr rider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6es1TWqeHis

17.1h gelding, age 5, in Training Level (Rider is 6’2") first year showing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SngVJmxAk4E
First time he has ever seen a jump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF0Rrt7eLFg

16.2h gelding with an amateur rider (This horse also did well in dressage):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFsHV-uaDDY
With a novice junior rider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8IMEBlfgIc

16.1h mare, first show over fences:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_mZ5mBgz1M

16.1h palomino filly at liberty (dressage type):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4DydlOcYU0

[TrueColours]

^^^^^

I LOVE what you have produced and are continuing to produce in your breeding program Laura! They are fabulous examples of “purpose bred” Anglo Arabs …

Now - IMO - taking what you have bred and then putting them into someone elses “purpose bred” breeding programs, crossing them on WB stallions and mares, that is where the real magic will happen … … and you will start to see the fabulous crosses come through in the dilute palomino and buckskin colours with those incredibly neat markings as well

I really hope that someone younger sees the merit in this type of breeding program in North America and really sinks their teeth into it and moves forward with it because there really isnt much (any) competition out there and the demand would definately be there from the Ammy Owners who want the talent along with the “WOW!” and pretty factor all combined

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Thank you for jumping into this discussion and sharing allanglos! You have three mares there that are pretty darn special. Both your Baladin D’Oc daughters… But the 16.1 hand palomino filly - Glitter in Gold - lovely!

Any breeding plans for those Baladin D’Oc mares? Inquiring minds want to know…