I try!!
Yeah, I’m proud of my mum!!! She has taught me so much about horses, riding, life, etc.
No, she doesn’t have any saddles anymore…but she has 4 GIANT boxes of trophies, ribbons, buckles, and all that. Over 300 ribbons…not bad for a highschooler with no trailer (she rode to all her competitions).
I think that people need to chill out, because unless you’ve ridden every horse in the world, in every fashion that exists…you aren’t in any place to pick someone else apart.
the 2 anky photos linked above do not show a behind the vertical horse. the first one is quite a lot in front of the vertical, the second one less so, but still in front.
i would say the piaffe on the pictures above of the lady is very incorrect. the balance of the horse is incorrect, the position of the legs and the rider position and aids is incorrect, the horse is falling forward on to the forehand, so that is why the extreme sit behind and the hind legs coming into such an extreme sit. this is a bad way to piaffe as it strains too much the horse and no transitions can be done correctly, nor can the piaffe be sustained, he will fall out of it.
for further discussion of why that piaffe is incorrect, look at decarpentry’s book on piaffe and passage, called prosaically enough, ‘‘Piaffe and Passage’’.
as someone once said just because foreleg is up and there is sit doesn’t mean it is correct piaffe. there has to be balance and correctness, and it gives lie to the saying, ‘‘too much is never enough’’.
too much sit IS too much sit, it is an evasion and a problem.
if you think it is a good piaffe in the pictures, i wish you all the best and hope you have a wonderful dressage journey. i just happen to feel it is not a picture of a good piaffe. in fact extremely bad. this is not to condemn rider or trainer or horse, it is just one moment and perhaps other moments were better, but the image shown is not correct.
[This message was edited by slc on Dec. 03, 2001 at 02:24 PM.]
It will be a choice between work or posting on these boards. Hmmmm…I wonder which one will win.
It’s all about ME, ME, ME!!! (The only signature worthy of a real DQ.)
I don’t know if it’s puppies or not. Can’t be no human. 5 inches round and crowing???
Ok, southern tobacco town pronunciation.
FewQway-Vuhreena(Vareeena, it’s a soft a, or kinda like duh)
There is a vulgar way of saying it as well. I don’t believe Louise would appreciate it if I posted it here. 
I went to the site you posted and read your comments. Thanks again, you’ve really helped me get an understanding, as did Oakhill Stables. Very good explanations and I’m beginning to see how ‘deep’ could be a useful tool.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think a lot of instructors find it much easier to deal with the horse’s issues than the rider’s because it generally takes less time and patience!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. Also, many instructors don’t know HOW to help the riders. Many times it needs very subtle adjustments that are not easy to see. If you have an instructor who is gifted in that way, you are lucky!!! We have one, that I know of, in our area. That’s ONE, out of many instructors, that knows how to help the rider balance and get out of the horse’s way, and be effective.
I do you believe you are right about the comment regarding the western riders and dressage. It fits me. My deep secret in my equestrian life is: “I WAS A TEENAGE RODEO QUEEN” and I can probably tie a goat faster than Velvet can touch her tiara and yes I have run barrels in a previous life. Welcome to the board.
Go out to this site and look for the Equitana Masters Class with Anky van Grunsven.
You have to dig a bit to find it (there’s no direct URL).
It’s all about ME, ME, ME!!! (The only signature worthy of a real DQ.)
that I scribed for this summer, who insisted that the only correct shoulder-in was on four tracks.
In one of my more tactful moments I declined to advise her that most of the great classicists describe the shoulder-in on three or four tracks depending on the degree of bend and the level of the horse. So’s I don’t get off track, I will now switch to Kathy’s nomenclature.
Shoulder-in on three tracks, has the inside hind falling on the foot path of the outside fore, the outside hind following its own footpath and the inside fore creating a third footpath. This is what we mostly see in lower level competition. On four tracks, the forefeet travel on footpaths that are entirely inside the footpaths followed by both hinds. I have rarely seen this done correctly except on videotape by a master- mostly it looks like leg yield, or gets perverted by the degree of neck bend and loses engagement behind.
The judge gave everyone (Basic3/4/second level) 5’s if they were on 3 footpaths and 3’s and 4’s if they only showed shoulder fore, where the outside fore travels in between the footpaths created by the two hinds.
DrHFmerrilytravelingdownthegardenpath
I had a (event) horse stumble and nosedive with me while conditioning XC once eons ago. When she fell, she over-flexed her head/neck at the poll, sort of started a somersault and never completed it. No symptoms until the next season when I began her “serious” dressage work, then the head flipping thing started. Took her to the vet school and they x-rayed her head/neck and found calcification in the neck behind the poll, said it probably was from the injury in the fall. It seems, by comparison, someone would have to be really cranking to cause the same kind of injury in regular flatwork, but perhaps repetitive stress type of injury would do it. Interesting.
Anky on the chestnut. Did anyone ever hear who the chestnut was???
[This message was edited by PaulaM on Sep. 10, 2001 at 01:04 AM.]
You must be kidding. I know better than to venture over there and discuss deep.
I’ve said it before: Deep cannot be explained on a bulletin board. You simply have to ride with someone who can teach you the correct method of doing it. The feel you get when you do it right will answer all of your questions. With my own horse, it gets him very loose in his back leading to schwung. When I go from deep to “up,” I suddenly feel tremendous amplitude (or expression) to his trot or canter. Everything is soft, he is much freer in his shoulders, and springs off the ground. It’s not a technique that riders should try to replicate without really good instruction. It’s also something I use in short pieces, not for an entire ride.
What I’ve observed over the past two years are that there are two camps – the first camp that wants to understand and possibly utilize this technique, and the second camp which is terrified of change and anything that doesn’t conform with what the old dead guys said. Let’s face it, though, the old dead guys have been wrong before. Furthermore, our modern day sport horses are conformed and move differently than the horses of 300-400 years ago.
These discussions really never go anywhere, so I think I’ll politely slink back into the background. The rest of you can have at it.
P.S. Are you some kind of twisted masochist, mona, doing battle with that crowd!? You did good, IMO.
[This message was edited by suzy on Sep. 27, 2001 at 03:26 PM.]
Has always told me, “fix your position and the horse will follow”. I believe this to be true.
I have made very subtle adjustments to my seat or leg and produced HUGE changes in my horses way of going. If your position is incorrect, you are blocking your horse.
Thank-you.
Very well said and something we should all keep in mind.
>Hands without legs/legs without hands is a method my last coach used to get horse more responsive to forward aids.
OMG! Here I thought I had this brilliant original idea “hands w/o legs, legs w/o hands” and now I find that Anky and somebody’s coach are stealing my thoughts.
“Hands without legs and legs without hands” is the battle cry of the Baucherists, for Pete’s sake. Are we supposed to be impressed with this?
I finally have you, suzy!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> there all true, I tell you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe that would be “they’re all true”.
It’s all about ME, ME, ME!!! (The only signature worthy of a real DQ.)
The edu.yorku was BORING! Some of the others held a bit of promise. I especially like that the last one had antidisestablishmentarianism as the word for the day.
It’s all about ME, ME, ME!!! (The only signature worthy of a real DQ.)
Well neighsayer, it has to be very lonely in Gaston, Oregon.
I am fascinated my those that though entitled to their opinions, find ease in criticising the “best” of our time. I, myself, would need credentials, or some proof that this person might be able to practice what they preach. Or maybe they are just good at reading books and interpreting the “written” word.
“The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!”
>>>Also, I know he’s way behind the vertical. I guess I wasn’t clear before, but that’s not where I want him. I like his neck position, but not his nose. If his nose were more forward in this picture, I’d be thrilled. I don’t encourage this position.
The good thing about this is that the fix is easy. If you were to reach your hands 2-3 inches further forward towards his mouth and slightly down, he would open up through the throatlash area more and not be so far behind the vertical.
>Where are my elbows supposed to be? I thought it was all a straight line - ears, shoulders, elbows, hips, etc. (having said that, what the hell am I doing with my legs?!) I know I’m not perfect, but should I be straightening my arms? I’m asking seriously here.
First, your hands. As I said above, reach a little further forward, but also reach slightly down and you will have a perfect line from your elbow through your wrist to the bit. In this photo, your hands are a wee bit too high. Your upper body is tipped slightly forward which has caused your lower leg to slide a bit further back then they should be. Not sure whether this is just the moment in which the photo was taken or something that you need to work on. At least it’s an easy fix. Concentrate on keeping your shoulder blades behind your hips.
You are a nice rider, and the “flaws” I have pointed out are minor and easy to fix. Every rider should be so lucky.
>>>I agree that Anky has amazing timing and tact, although I don’t find her seat particulary attractive (cut it out there, Suzy!)
Sheesh, and I was minding my own business for a change. Where’d that come from?
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