THE ANSWER TO THE EARPLUG ???

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
[B]I go away fro the weekend, and come back to 3+ pages on earplugs!

First, the AHSA general rule about artificial appliances is “unconstitutionally vague”. If we were to take the “anything not permitted is prohibited” literally, then whips, spurs, martingales, and even, to take it to an extreme, saddles, would be illegal for the hunter division, as none of them are expressly permitted. (Reductio ad Absurdum)

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not so–the saddles are expressly permitted under the appointments section, and martingales are expressly metioned as permitted over fences, but not in the u/s.

[Bertie]

Well, it WAS funny…

I’m sorry, Pwynnorman, I can’t get worked up into a debate over the moralities of earbunny use.

[Melissa]

I know someone who is on the Boad for the NHJA council thingy, and as soon as I here back from him I will let you guys know what he said.
I think it is ridiculouse that you guys are making such a big deal about it. It happens, there are way to many other things that you could be fussing over than 2 little pieces of cotton that help the HORSE feel more comfortable!!
Ear plugs might be illegal, and im not totally bashing you guys, but we will find out soon…

[Justbay]

If only earbunnies were the “quick fix”…

[Melissa]

Devildog, what do you show in anyway, and besides, why is such a big deal to you wether people have them or not?!? If you train your horse so well, not saying you dotn just restating what you said, you dont have to worry, cause your horse will be listening to you. If your horse is going to be so well trained, it shouldnt matter whether the competition has them on or not, you should be good enough to beet that horse that has them!

[satin]

Devildog, if and when you do show in the hunters, I’d wait on protesting a horse with earplugs until we hear a more definitive answer as to their legality.

[ccoronios]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TinyTot:
It sticks cotton in a horses ears will stop them from hearing, why do we still cluck?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOVE IT, TinyTot! Answers, please?

[Black_Market_Radio]

I never said anyone was “Bad” for using ear plugs did I. BUT, How many times have I been told I am bad for having a different opinion? You still missed my point. Yes, horses can be unpredictable. But guess what, All the other disciplines are doing just fine without them and so I will never get why they are so heavily defended. Do you not think we who ride other disciplines as have spooky horses as well? Can your horses move as easily into dressage as ours can move into hunters? Western Pleasure and trail horses sure seem to make nice hunters, I have seen it many times in my area! If your horses have to have ear plugs then I guess not! And yes, my mare will show Hunters as well. You guys are never going to convince me. I am as firm in my belief as you are in yours, so how about we agree to disagree? Or you can keep attacking me, it shows true charactor.

[Jumphigh83]

I want to see SEE Devildog ride sans “appliances”…hmmmm, no sadle, no bridle, no bit, no reins, no shoes…sounds like a circus act to me! come on Devildog, don’t be so sanctamonious!! (and I’ll learn to spell!)

[Black_Market_Radio]

I called her directly on the phone number listed on the AHSA website right by her name, she was very nice and very helpful!

[CAH]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
[B]

Second, I don’t think that every horse, TB or otherwise, is suitable to be a show hunter…
Would it not be better to say: “This horse is too hot, too spooky, too whatever to be a good show hunter. What would be a better occupation for this horse?” (This works the other way too. An event horse that is a very “pretty” jumper, but not particularly bold cross country might be happier and more sucessful in the hunter ring.)

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn’t agree more.

[Black_Market_Radio]

When I called she told me that ear plugs fall under artificial appliances. Read the rules above, it states that ALL artificial appliances are illegal, no, it does not SPECIFICALLY say ear plugs, but they fall under the general rule. Pot is illegal yet stores sell bongs. Just because a place sells something does not mean that it can be legally used at a recognized show. There are a great many things that need to be changed in the horse show world, and now many of you found out quite by accident that something that was common place is not legal. The truth is, no matter how you look at it, no matter how small, insignificant or dumb it may seem, it’s not legal. Like I said, now it HAS become a moral issue. Stupid or not, it comes down to who is truly honest and who is not.

[Bertie]

No, martingales are NOT expressly mentioned as permitted…They are only mentioned under Article 2417 where they’re prohibited.

"Article 2417. Tack…

3. Martingales of any type are prohibited in Under Saddle, hack and tie-breaking classes."

[Jennifer_Alcott]

Devildog, THANK YOU for taking the time to call someone at the AHSA yourself and ask the earplug question! Why does it NOT surprise me that we can count on a Marine to find out the rules & regs? (My husband was in the Marine Corps for 10 years, and now he’s a civilian employee at Quantico.)

Thanks again for confirming what I was told, and I’ll be interested to see the answers that everyone else who calls or writes the AHSA gets!

[Bertie]

I agree, Jumphigh – is a gel pad an appliance??? Our 18 yr old, super-sensitive TB jumper won’t want to hear that one!!! He’s been happy with his gel pad for over a decade. We can’t take it from him now!

I can totally relate to Mrs. Werner’s situation — Working for a governing organization, you can never know all the regulations by heart.-- You’re asked a casual question that you think you know the answer to, and so you give what you think is the right answer. Trying to be helpful.

Then you look a bit deeper, and realize that the answer is not as clear as you thought, and the question was not just a casual one. She did the right thing to contact Devildog and myself to let us know that more steps must be taken before we get the real answer.

[This message has been edited by Bertie (edited 04-16-2000).]

[Black_Market_Radio]

Melissa, BEFORE YOU GO YELLING AT ME AND TELLING ME TO STEP OFF MY HIGH HORSE AND GET REAL go and read my other posts on the first ear plug post. I take my horse EVERYWHERE to get her used to show environments, and you better believe my horse will be darn seasoned at other events and exposed to lot’s of stuff BEFORE she goes to a major show. I would not even ATTEMPT to qualify my horse for indoors UNTIL she was ready and not so easily distracted by everything. You TOTALLY missed my point that why is it Hunters that need ear plugs but everyone else who has just as much rucous going on at their shows doesn’t? Why is it that a pleasure or trail horse can work quietly in a ring when nearby there are cattle going nuts and barrel racers running and people whooping and yelling and everything else? My point is, THEY ARE NOT A NESSCESITY. IF THE REST OF US CAN DO IT THAT WHY CAN’T YOU? THAT is what I am asking. I use no gadgets not even the smallest one on my horse. Why? Because I want to have a properly trained horse that can go quietly anywhere at any time when whatever is going on. So my answer to that question is still no. I would not stuff my horses ears because my horse would be exposed to it all BEFORE showing in the big time. That is MY opinion and if you don’t like it or think I am on a high horse, then oh well. You can’t argue and tell me that I would stuff my horses ears if I had scrimped and saved or whatever because my horse would not even start to show at major shows until she was ready to go WITHOUT anything but the basic tack that I ride her in everyday. THAT is why I take my horse to penning competitions and hunter/jumper and other schooling shows. So that she will be ready and know what is going on and already be used to the noise and surroundings when I start to show her in recognized shows. But then again, I am in no big hurry to win. I will not do whatever it takes to win. Can you fault me for that?

[Melissa]

Another thing…you might not be in a hurry to sell your horse, but some of us kinda are. We dont have years to take our horses everywhere before we actually show, we have to expose them as quick as they can. Many trainers make the horses good the first year…so they have 1 year of spooks and earplugs, and can show the rest of their lifes…unlike haveing to take years to actually get used to it!!!

[Black_Market_Radio]

That is why I have been in contact with members of the AHSA and NHJC. I am trying to find out. Tomorrow I will call the AHSA and talk to a person whom a member of the AHSA committee suggested talking to. And also a member of the NHJC committee will bring it up in the next conference call. I guess ear plugs fall under the “grey area” of the rules, and no one really knows what to do with them!

[pwynnnorman]

Answer my question.

[Duffy]

OK, I’ll bite again. . .Maybe if the hunters were allowed to use the same devices (and it was customary and usual to) as the dressage, etc., then maybe some wouldn’t feel the need for ear poms. Hunters are not judged on “submission” (I hate that word). They are allowed some freedom to have that relaxed and huntery look. The horse I show in the hunters has PLENTY of mileage AND training. He’s done the QH stuff, jumpers, hunters, equitation, you name it. But he’s still a horse, bottom line. If using ear poms can eliminate one injury due to an unpredictable spook, you’d condemn their use??? I’m sorry. . .I just don’t understand your attitude on this issue, or what should be an non-issue, IMO.

I’m not attacking anyone - just trying to clarify my opinion. I just didn’t realize the sensitivity on this, obviously.

OK - I just read my post and I apologize for the tone in the beginning - definately defensive. I have to say, that I love watching dressage done well (you can go to my posts on the Dressage Forum to see that). I sure advanced level dressage riders use different tack/applicances because of the level of intricacy their movements require. Some of the training, IMO, is the same across the board in the different disciplines and I think that is a good thing. By the same token, the training takes different turns by necessity for the different disciplines. What I’m trying to say, and obviously not doing a very good job, is that different disciplines require different training techniques. I’m not condoning all of them, needless to say. But I’m sure that some are needed that are unique to each discipline.

Ok, I’m stopping now - don’t know if I’m helping or hurting here

[This message has been edited by Duffy (edited 04-17-2000).]