I just phoned Mrs. Judith Werner from the AHSA rules committee, she is the chair person, and she said that even though it doesn’t say specifically that earplugs are not allowed, but that they ARE considered an artificial aid (or whatever the term in the rule book uses, can’t think of the EXACT phrase she used but it was the one in the rulebook) Anyway, she said her straight out answer was that they were illegal. So there you have it. If you don’t believe me e-mail or call her and she will tell you the same thing.
THey may not work for your horse, but my Trainers PreLem jumper cant go out of his stall without them, he gets so nervouse. you put them in and he is perfect! And we know that they can still hear…duh!
Bravo, pwynn! The point isn’t the ear bunnies, it’s the rules and the lines that people will cross. It will be interesting to see whether there’s a definitive answer on this one from the AHSA or whether they will keep the waters muddy. I expect the latter.
Maybe I’m an exception, but to me, the learning process is part of the fun of horses. And yes, at home we use equipment we wouldn’t show in if we need to address a learning or training issue or a habit (I’m talking draw reins or a special bit here, nothing more severe). When there’s improvement, we go back to the regular stuff.
I’m a competitive person, so I do have to remind myself that with my young horse and limited budget, it will take longer to get where we want to be, but instead of bemoaning that, I try to enjoy every accomplishment and not obssess too much about the tough days. It would be nice to know that when we do show, everyone is playing by the same rules, and our preparation will make a difference, but unfortunately, we all know better…
And I STILL wonder why no one has legitamitly answered MY question.
I find it hard to believe that a thread about earplugs, of all things, has gotten to be three pages long, while a thread about an abusive technique used in Florida (see “Latest Jumping Aid”) has received little to no attention.
This is an issue we all feel strongly about, obviously. What works for me and my horses may not work for someone else. I also think that every discipline has different aids/devices that may not make sense to others in different disciplines.
We all use devices. Whether it’s a flash noseband or earplugs or a gelpad or a whip and spurs, everyone uses something. Unless the device is abusive (such as the nerveline that started this discussion) or blatantly illegal (which earplugs are not), we should let the issue go, and as Devildog said, agree to disagree.
Someday we may have a definitive answer from the AHSA about the legality of earplugs. It might take a rule change in either direction- either legalizing them or prohibiting them- but in any case, I believe it will take time.
Pwynn, I am not “suspiciously defenisve,” as you so kindly stated about those defending the use of earplugs- but I’d just like to point out that just because you ask a question, other posters are not compelled to answer.
Again, this is an issue that will not be settled overnight, and I think it would be best if we let it go for now, and agree to disagree.
I still don’t see what the big deal is. Why should they be illegal?
I go away fro the weekend, and come back to 3+ pages on earplugs!
First, the AHSA general rule about artificial appliances is “unconstitutionally vague”. If we were to take the “anything not permitted is prohibited” literally, then whips, spurs, martingales, and even, to take it to an extreme, saddles, would be illegal for the hunter division, as none of them are expressly permitted. (Reductio ad Absurdum)
Obviously this is neither the intention of the AHSA nor the way the rule is enforced.
On the other hand, I think that we all agree that things like an “electronic girth buzzer” OUGHT to be illegal, and the only rule that would prohibit them is the one about artificial devices.
In between is an enormous grey area which includes ear plugs, fly masks, various bits, draw and side reins, various nosebands, nerve lines, etc., and all sorts of awful things I can’t think of.
The “line” between permitted and not permitted has generally been drawn by what the majority of the judges THINK is conventional. (According to the posts here, it would appear that (for the hunter division) ear plugs are considered conventional, and twisted wire snaffles are considered conventional, but “hidden gags” are considered unconventional.)
I think that the AHSA has a responsibility to draw the line more clearly. If they don’t, they will be unable to effectivly ban things like the electronic girth. I think it is far more important THAT they draw a clear line that bans nerve lines and electronic girths, than exactly where the line is drawn within the “gray areas”.
I am going to put my personal opinions about where I think the appropriate line should be in another post.
Here is the rule from the AHSA general rule book discussing artificial appliances:
All artificial appliances other than those permitted in division rules are prohibited (Exception: Reining Division). Bandages, tailsets, chains or other training devices are prohibited in the ring in Breeding/Halter classes. All artificial appliances other than those permitted in division rules are prohibited (Exception: Reining and Jumper Divisions)
The following is the rules for the Hunter Division:
CHAPTER IV. ATTIRE, TACK AND EQUIPMENT.
Article 2417. Tack.
-
Regulation snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are recommended. A judge may penalize for non-conventional types of bits or
nosebands. -
Competitors may be refused an award unless they return to the ring for conformation or soundness with the same complete bridle in which they have performed.
-
Martingales of any type are prohibited in Under Saddle, hack and tie-breaking classes.
Article 2418. Equipment. Light pads and bar shoes are permissible, however, bar shoes indicate a weakness and in Conformation classes a judge may penalize accordingly. Boots, wraps and bandages are prohibited.
In the case of inclement weather competition
management may permit the use of bell boots.
No where in ANY of the Hunter rules does it state that ear plugs are permissable. But the general rules state that NO artificial appliances (hey, I got it this time!) unless Specifically stated by the discipline may be used.
[This message has been edited by devildog20 (edited 04-16-2000).]
Most people are not lucky enough to look around until they find the perfect horse. Usually, due to financial considerations, they opt for something close and go to work on it. I have an OTT TB that i show as a hunter. He has an old injury and would probably not stay sound doing the jumpers or going cross country. However, he is sound and happy over 3’- 3’6. He tends to be a bit fresh or nervous sometimes, so i stuff his ears.
According to some of you purists, this horse is probably not best suited for the hunter ring. What else would he do? He is not suitable for a beginner. Due to his injury, even if I did sell him, I would not get much for him. I think this horse is very fortunate to have a good home where he is well fed and cared for. Not everyone is looking to make the Olympic team. I am constantly striving to learn more and better my horsemanship. But I have a family and job, and riding is usually squeezed in between. So crucify me because I am not whispering in my horse’s ear (he can’t hear me anyway, they’re stuffed) and riding him bridleless and bareback.
So there may be lots of horses in the hunter ring who may be better suited to do something else. Isn’t it more important to notice that the horse is fat and happy, and the rider is grinning ear to ear because she just put in a nice round?
Bertie, you’re so right! This is a riot. Hoooeee! It’s 1:30 Saturday night, I’m up waiting for a mare to foal and actually couldn’t resist coming online to see who dug up what about the latest HOT TOPIC.
But, folks, do remember that rules aren’t established arbitrarily. I’m actually quite gratified that someone somewhere in the history of the sport saw that it was necessary to draw the line somewhere. For example, how do you know that some enterprising trainer hasn’t invented a type of ear plug that is 95% effective? Has anyone tested just how “benign” they are?
And, yes, it seems so very, very minor, especially since so many use them. Then, too, what’s an extra inch or two, an extra ounce or so, etc., etc. on a gaited horse’s feet? Such a minor thing.
This will actually be an interesting test. Jumphigh, you’ve gotten so worked up over several issues, here’s one for you to use to test the system: protest the next time the hunter winner has earplugs in. You know what I think will happen: the “new” generation of powerul trainers will get together, like they did with the drugs and meds situation, and have an emergency rule change passed.
Devildog, I’m so relieved that you, too, see the parallel to the drugs and meds issue. Thanks so much for the follow-through!
oops…I meant *hearing!
Devildog, its time to step up and be the bigger person. You would not work all year to qualify and jsut take the horse and let it look. Thats ridiculouse, and you said that you wouldnt take a green horse there if it wasnt ready! PLEASE! Indoors cost a lot of money, and there HAS to be a first time! GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE! The horse will NEVER be ready unless you take it!! IT WILL NEVER BE A SEASONED HORSE UNTIL IT IS THERE AND SHOWS, and GETS USED TO THAT PLACE!!! This thread is getting to be outragiouse!!
[This message has been edited by Melissa (edited 04-16-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Melissa (edited 04-16-2000).]
I must say I am torn between utter amusement that so many folks are horrified that earplugs might be illegal (guess it depends o whose ox is being gored whether we want the rule strictly enforced,eh?) and sadness that so many people seem to find them an indespensible device.
These days, I ride Arabs mainly. A breed stereotyped as being hot and easily spooked.
A few years back, we showed dressage at an Arab show at a facility where, unbeknownst to the organizers, the day of the dressage, a tool and die makers trade fair was being torn down and packed up immedicately adjacent to the (outdoor) arena. There were forklifts beeping, large objects on pallets covered with plastic blowing in the wind, semi rigs blowing their airbrakes, etc. None of the horses seemed particularly interested, and one (mine, being ridden by a friend) was chased down the long side during his canter lengthening by a loose Doberman. (He didn’t spook, possibly because he regularly hunted with hounds, and won the class.)
A week later, I attended an Irish cultural festival, and, being a horseperson, naturally gravitated towards the Connemara Pony booth. As I approached, who should I hear but the judge from the dressage telling the Connemara folks about the show --“There were things beeping, and plastic blowing, and all kinds of stuff.And you know those little Arabs didn’t look left or right; they just went right along and did their jobs. They’d have been peeling Warmbloods out of the trees.”
What’s the point of all this? If our little hotbloods can do it, so can your horses. It’s called training.
Melissa, I plan on showing Hunters. THAT is why I worry about it. And if I DO place second to a horse with ear plugs then I WILL protest it. Your post about your trainers horse not being able to function properly without earplugs proves my point. Obviously they do something or no one would use them. As Pwynn stated before, suitability comes to mind. But that is MY opinion. And funny how no one has a viable come back for why other horses in all other disciplines can live without ear plugs and not have nervous breakdowns. But that Hunters just can’t do without them because they will be bothered by the noise. That is what I am curious about, I have tried to understand it but my trainers whom I have worked with in the past and present have taught me hard work with no gimmicks, and it can and does work. That is why I just can’t for the life of me justify it, and I am sorry for that! I am a firm believer in the least amount of gimmicks possible. The only thing I have ever used was a running martengale on my TB who would throw his head back and almost hit me in the face. But that was for MY saftey. My saddle is properly fit to my horse, so there is no need for other padding. Besides that, a gel pad does not affect a horses senses. Again, sorry if I do not have the popular opinion. I know where you guys are coming from, I just don’t agree with it!
Ok, to whoever said that they would protest a horse that beat them and had earplugs in (I believe it was Devildog), that is PETTY!!! I have nothing against earplugs and the people who use them - why can’t you guys be the same way? I don’t use them personally, and if a horse beat me who had them in, I wouldn’t think “oh, he beat me cause he had earplugs in.” NOOOO. I would think “What could I have done to make my performance better, what aspects of that horse did the judge particularly like” etc. Seriously guys… This is rediculous
As someone said… You can’t really draw the line, but this is truly absurd. A horse that belongs to a friend of mine (she has had it for 3 years) is off the track and still spooky on some days, despite having been around in the Children’s and now doing the juniors. Seriously, you just can’t predict this mare some days. I remember arriving to watch them at a show (I ended up being late and missing her division), to find out that my friend’s horse had spooked when the heaters in the indoor had turned on. The week before, the mare had turned in a FLAWLESS performance w/o spooks or any mishaps. That’s just to prove my point that horses are unpredictable and these harmless devices can be the saving grace on some days. My usually unflappable horse jumped across the ring when he saw the dog rolling on the grass the other day.
Some of you refuse to believe that some horses just SPOOK. No training can fix a horse that is flighty. And as someone else said, in the hunters, especially at the bigger shows, you want your horse focused on his job, calm, and quiet. Even if these earplugs don’t really work, have you ever noticed how much a horse will feed off of a rider’s nervousness? If the earplugs make the rider feel better, then they will usually ride better and turn in a better trip. That’s another point… Seriously, there are many other devices out there that aren’t being complained about here. If earplugs are so inconsequential as everyone is saying WHY on EARTH do you CARE??? Can’t you guys just focus on your riding and your horse and trying to make your horse the best it can be instead of trying to tear down other people and make an excuse as to why these horses and riders are bad? I’m only 13, and I find this sickening
Well, I guess I can agree that this discussion is getting no place fast. So, lets cry Pax and get on to other matters.
Wow! You got through to an official working at the AHSA at 10:00 PM on a Saturday night? Seriously, if our officials are answering phone calls late Saturday night, that’s great!
Now for my personal opinions.
First, I think that earplugs are far more benign than whips and spurs and martingales. Given that whips and spurs and martingales are clearly permitted, I think that ear plugs should be permitted, except in divisions that chose to explicitly exclude them.
Second, I don’t think that every horse, TB or otherwise, is suitable to be a show hunter. Years ago I trained a very talented, but very spooky, TB mare (NOT off the track). It never occured to me to try to show her (except to get her used to jumping courses in a ring) or sell her as a hunter. It was clear she would be a much better fit as a jumper or an event horse, and that is where I competed her. Would I have tried riding her with earplugs if I had known about them? Quite possibly (if the owner had agreed). But I still would not have tried to sell her as a show hunter. I did take her field hunting several times, and she was fine there, except that she fidgetted at the checks.
Several people in this thread seem (my ipmression, maybe I am misinterpreting) to have the attitude that “It is needed in order to make some horses go like a hunter, therfore it should be permitted.” If this is, indeed you opinion, you may want to think about the implications. Again where is the line. If ear plugs are OK, what about “longing to death”, what about drugs? (I am talking about “OK” from a moral or ethical point of view, not a rule book point of view.) I think that this basic attitude (I need to turn this horse into a show hunter, no matter what), taken to extreme leads to the drugging problems.
Would it not be better to say: “This horse is too hot, too spooky, too whatever to be a good show hunter. What would be a better occupation for this horse?” (This works the other way too. An event horse that is a very “pretty” jumper, but not particularly bold cross country might be happier and more sucessful in the hunter ring.)
And I think I know at least one of the reasons this question is not asked more often by those initially training and selling the horses. It is because “competent” show hunters sell for more money than all but the most exceptional individuals in other disciplines.
The other reason is because the trainers are not “well rounded” enough. They don’t know enough about other disciplines to know whether a horse would thrive there.
(I am afraid this post is not particularly well organized, I am jumping around, please bear with me.)
Another “higher level” question, is SHOULD spookyness be such a serious fault in show hunters? Should the rules be changed to make manners less important? IF this is a good idea, what would it take to change the rules/actual judging?
On yet another tangent, there seems to be a distinction between horses for whom ear plugs are needed for them to perform, and horses that are used to (or, perhaps, whose riders have become used to) ear plugs.
Just as I suspect that all the A show champions would go just as well without thier martingales, I suspect they would go just as well without their earplugs. Any horse that actually raised its head enough to “touch” the martingale would already be out of the ribbons at that level. But if you tried to tell the riders and trainers that they had to stop using martingales they would have a fit. (And I am NOT proposing that they do, I am just pointing out the distinction between USING an “artifical device” and NEEDING one.)
[This message has been edited by Janet (edited 04-17-2000).]
I am not trying to start trouble but I think there is a lot more illegal artificial aid issues going on in the hunters than EARPLUGS!!
I see almost every horse with them, tack shops now sell them and I think alot of horses still hear through them…
I am suprised that so many people have an issue with this…If it specified as illegal, well that is different. Is it actually specified?
Personally, I really do not think that someone who has a horse with them in, versus myself who might not be “using”, has enough of a competitive advantage over me by using earplugs. This is my opinion.
