So if earplugs are illegal, and they made the ruling retroactive, they may as well send out the directory instead of listing disciplined names in Horse Show since that many people would be affected! Including me, but I had no idea ear bunnies may be illegal. 
Wow, wow, wow!!!
This is, hands down, the most revealing thread I have ever, ever read.
Not only are many of you getting suspiciously defensive, but it is truly and utterly AMAZING and utter REVEALING how you absolutely refuse to answer my question: WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE, PEOPLE!!!
You CAN’T answer that, can you? THAT’s the problem–it isn’t the bloody ear thingies at all. The problem is that you people are not willing to let go of an EXPEDIENT technique because to do so would force you to spend more time training and less time showing. By golly, isn’t that at the heart of sooooo many issues this board has discussed: time vs. money, time vs. enjoyment, time vs. rewards. And you know what? It makes some of the other statements you make on other threads sound very, very hypocritical.
Devildog asked me to write up a rule change about the ear bunnies thing. Here’s what I replied to her when she told me the AHSA people said they were unsure of the issue and that we should submit a rule change to resolve it:
Ha! In other words, they don’t want to step in it.
Clearly, the plugs were meant to be illegal. No “rule change” should be necessary because there’s no rule to change, is there? The applicable rule clearly states no artificial appliances or devices [except for those things Jumphigh Id’ed: saddle, bridle, etc.–BTW, Jumphigh, dressage REQUIRES the use of spurs because of what they demonstrate about the horse’s training and submission), and ear plugs are undeniably artificial.
Anyway, though, I’d submit a change if the deadline weren’t passed for members to do so. But think about it, Angel: if “they” aren’t willing to admit that under the CURRENT rules, the plugs are illegal, how likely is it that “they” would EVER pass a change to make sure that they ARE illegal?
Nope, my friend. We’ve just caught them in yet another ill-considered, weak-willed, inconsistent position. You do realize that the mindset of the pure hunter people online can’t even grasp why we’re concerned? It’s pretty hopeless, I’m afraid. They’ll never get it because they’ll never consider anything but their comfort and expedience. As long as the game is played in the way that they enjoy, they don’t really care what the rules are!
Pwynn, I think the line is hard to draw, especially when one considers things ‘allowed’ in one discipline that are not in another. Flash nosebands, running martingales, standing martingales, etc., are all things that vary from discipline to discipline as far as ‘legality’ goes. I think earplugs are pretty tame, compared to a ‘legal’ yet severe bit or a set of sharp spurs.
Once again, I think the benifits of earplugs vary from individual to individual. In the original thread,I gave as an example a horse in my care who benifited and, despite devildog’s insistence that you can condition a horse to anything, spent ten years being a spook.<g>
In response to Pwynn’s question on where to draw the line is-you can’t! This is an all or nothing situation. I view stuffing ears the same as using a martingale or spurs. Devildog, why do dressage people use whips? Do you use them to get your horse to pay attention to your aids, to sharpen them up? I stuff my horseÂ’s ears at a noisy horseshow so she can concentrate on me and what I am asking her to do. I have seen dressage riders/ trainers give a horse a slight flick of the whip to get the horses focus back on them when their mind starts to wonder-how is this different? If hunters canÂ’t use ear plugs, then I guess we canÂ’t use spurs, or carry sticks either. We rely on the rules to tell us what we may and may not use in the show ring, but lets face it-everything is an artificial aid! Unless we ride around with no tack someone, somewhere can accuse of use of using artificial aids or means to control our horses.
I think there are a few themes here.
- What is an ideal hunter?
- Is it “fair” to define an ideal hunter in such a way that many can attain the goal only by expanding the repetoire of acceptable accoutrements?
- Is winning the be all and end all?
- Is there a place for the use of training aids that eventually can be abandoned?
Personally, I don’t love the hunters because so much of it does seem so arbitrary. How is daisy cutting more suitable than higher knee action? (I thought I read that the long pasterns associated with that kind of motion might result in more tendon strains?)But, as one poster said, if we don’t like them, we don’t have to join them.
Clarity of definition of permissible and not permissable is helpful as new tools are developed. It might not make sense, but at least there can’t be any misunderstandings.
Maybe, for safety sake for horses and riders, there should be different things that are permitted for junior and amateur, for baby greens, than for second year and working hunters. If the latter two groups are the epitome of the hunter world, how would it hurt to permit less accomplished riders and horses try to work toward the goal with expanded riding tools, as long as they are not cruel? That would permit horses to be shown and marketed without hours of lunging, being deprived or food or water, or other cruel approaches that I don’t even know of.
JMHO.
If she was correct, then I won’t use them. No biggy. They are so benign, that I’m surprised they are illegal. But then, as a government employee, I understand that regulations don’t always make sense! 
pwynn… said:
“Janet, think of this: whips and spurs are permitted, but unlike ear plugs, the rider has to APPLY them for them to have any effect. Indeed, they are “attached” to the rider, which makes them part OF the rider and of the way the horse is ridden–and isn’t that what is part of the challenge of the sport? How to RIDE (not drug, not de-sensitize, not lung til dead) the horse?”
Perhaps a better analogy would be martingales. Or gel pads. Or dropped/flash nosebands.
Sorry. I think a horse that doesn’t NEED earplugs is a “Better” horse (in the sense that it is the horse I would prefer to own), but I refuse to get excited about their use. Especially in a world where “hours of longing” and twisted wire snaffles are commonplace, and “nerve lines” (which I had never heard of before) are not uncommon.
Have you read the rest of the dressage rules yet LOL!! They are WAY more in-depth and specific than any of the other disciplines rules. Just because ear plugs are not specifically mentioned does not make them legal. Ask for yourself, I have also e-mailed the other committee members on this issue and I will tell you what they respond with. But so far myself and another person have contacted the AHSA DIRECTLY and gotten the same answer. If you REALLY question it that much then please call or write them yourselves. I don’t understand why no one else has done this. Especially the people that are just as for ear plugs as I am against them and defend them so whole heartedly. Please, ask them. If you really want to know, ask. What can it hurt?
Here’s a guess…Dressage seems to be judged on more of an exact, disciplined performance than working hunters. I’m not saying one is better than the other, just that they’re judged differently. So it would make sense that the strictness would carry over to the rules for equipment. Am I all wet?
Thanks Bertie! Now, I have looked all over the NHJC website and I can’t find anywhere that has someone’s e-mail address, does anyone know how to contact them? I asked the people from zone 10, which is my zone, and I will post their response when I get it!
Folks, I’m willing to accept whatever the “ruling” is on the issue, but I will yet again repeat why, IMO, this is important: WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE???
Those of you in favor of ear plugs being legal, tell me how you would guide an organization with policing responsibilities when it comes to what, exactly, is an “artificial device”? What would you include, what would you exclude?
It isn’t the plugs themselves–indeed, to focus on that only is to belittle what, for some, especially trainers trying to make their way and not knowing what they can or can’t do (like the herbal thing, too, perhaps?)–and maybe as a result not being able to be as competitive as those who do know where the lines are (or dare to step over regardless).
Or are the lines meant to be invisible, so they can be placed hither and yon at will, depending on the group in power?
Wow… this is so rediculous. 
But those of you who criticize the use of earplugs - have you ever had that particular horse that is jumpy and spooks at every little thing? Those horses are darn hard rides, and scary sounds aren’t going to make it any easier. What’s wrong w/ earplugs then? They are not a quick fix at all. If I had a horse that got startled by loud sounds sometimes, he would have earplugs in right away. Like someone else said… you wouldn’t want your horse to spook at indoors or Devon (where there is a fair going on right by the ring), would you?
I mainly show dressage but I will take my mare to Hunter shows as well for the experience. But I think that a horse who wins with ear plugs in over a horse without is not fair, I am sorry, that is my opinion. And yes, I did have a horse that was jumpy and spooked at every little thing. It does not take years and years, but it does take a little longer. I guess I am just of the classical mindset. There are MANY things that some dressage riders do/use that I do not agree with. I am not condemning you guys for using them if they are legal, heck it is your choice I guess, but I don’t understand it and I would never use them. But what if they ARE illegal? Then what are you going to think. Here’s the thing that I personally do not get so PLEASE do not flame me for not understanding. In some instances you guys are saying that they work wonders on certain horses and in others you guys say they barley do anything. If they hardley have an effect, then why use them at all? You guys totally miss my point and I say it over and over and over again that there are young horses in Western Events, at age 3 and 4 that are doing trail and pleasure classes without ear plugs. I just don’t understand why you guys say that you HAVE to have them. Why do I classify them as a quick fix? Because of earlier posts that state that these horses are bothered by the sounds and so stuffing their ears helps calm them down. Well, so does giving them Ace. THAT is why I think of them as a quick fix. But that is MY opinion and it doesn’t seem to be a popular one at that, but that does not mean that I am going to change it. I personally feel that no amount of equipment no matter how minute can replace real and thorough training. I don’t think it is cruel and never did I say I thought that it hurt them, I just do not agree with them. Sorry if you all hate me now because I have a differing opinion from the rest of the crowd, I don’t hate any of you for using ear plugs, but you seem to get on the defensive about them rather quickly and are quick to condemn me for not advocating their use! And so I have had to defend myself and my personal beliefs. I have not once personally attacked any individual on this board, but I have been personally attacked several times because heaven forbid I should not agree with a certain device. It’s rather sad, I really enjoy some of the topics and the people on this board, I don’t always agree with what happens on the board but whoa, watch out when you don’t agree, because then people will personally jab at you and criticize you for having a different opinion. And the thing that gets me is, how many of you took the time to ask the AHSA about ear plugs? I did and then get criticized for it. I may take a break from this board for awhile because quite frankly I find it quite disturbing that a few of you personally attack me for standing up for what I believe in. I know you believe whole heartedly in using ear plugs as I believe whole heartedly in exposure instead! But I have not ONCE personally attacked a person and told them they were crack heads for using ear plugs. But I was basically told I was a crack head for even SUGGESTING that exposure would be an alternative.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog20:
Melissa, I plan on showing Hunters. THAT is why I worry about it. And if I DO place second to a horse with ear plugs then I WILL protest it. Your post about your trainers horse not being able to function properly without earplugs proves my point. Obviously they do something or no one would use them. As Pwynn stated before, suitability comes to mind. But that is MY opinion. And funny how no one has a viable come back for why other horses in all other disciplines can live without ear plugs and not have nervous breakdowns. But that Hunters just can’t do without them because they will be bothered by the noise. That is what I am curious about, I have tried to understand it but my trainers whom I have worked with in the past and present have taught me hard work with no gimmicks, and it can and does work. That is why I just can’t for the life of me justify it, and I am sorry for that! I am a firm believer in the least amount of gimmicks possible. The only thing I have ever used was a running martengale on my TB who would throw his head back and almost hit me in the face. But that was for MY saftey. My saddle is properly fit to my horse, so there is no need for other padding. Besides that, a gel pad does not affect a horses senses. Again, sorry if I do not have the popular opinion. I know where you guys are coming from, I just don’t agree with it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Has anyone noticed how many “poms” are found on the ground all over the show grounds??? There are obviously some horses out there schooling and showing without them that left the stabling area with them on. . .
I’m sure some horses are less frightened by the hissing of the loudspeakers, but I feel that more of them are wearing them for their trainers’ and riders’ sakes than for their own (per Tiny).
I too feel that there are lots more treacherous waters to be delved into than “ear bunnies”, IMO. If they are deemed illegal, I shall not use them, and will make the ruling known to my fellow barnmates. But will I “protest” someone who beats me that is wearing them, PLEASE!!! Give me a break!! If I feel a horse is being abused in some manner, yes, I will protest, (even if it doesn’t beat me)!!! But, with this unharmful cotton. . . .??? And I would feel embarrassed for someone who did protest.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog20:
s I am as firm in my belief as you are in yours, so how about we agree to disagree? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Before we gets too snide about riding without saddle & bridle - anyone seen the Foxfield Drill Team? 15 girls, ranging from 8-17 (or thereabouts), riding everything from large ponies to the horse that “played” Sylvester, performing CLOSE ORDER drill at a canter, over 2’6" fences - and participating in parades - bareback, with a color-coordinated cable (like a martingale loop). Probably also without earbunnies… Word has it that “at home” they also do a demonstration over cross country obstacles. They are, without doubt, the most impressive examples of horsemanship I’ve ever seen.
I agree, Devildog, if the AHSA defines artificial devices, and if ear plugs fall under that definition, then they fall under the regulation that limits or disallows the use of artificial devices. If it’s silly that they’re disallowed, then there could be a move to make an exception for ear plugs specifically.
You’re right, Devildog. I did email the question to Mrs. Werner. Not that I don’t believe you!!! I DO! But I want to get the answer in writing from her, after she’s had a chance to check the regs.
(I do this at work all the time…It drives people crazy, but it sure helps to clear up fuzzy issues!)
[This message has been edited by Bertie (edited 04-16-2000).]
Two possible reasons why the dressage rules are so precise and the hunter rules are so vague.
One- the dressage rules are based on the FEI rules which are very specific. (So are the CT rules, which have an equally precise but quite different specification on legal bits.)
Two - the dressage (rule making) community, for whatever reason, wants to make things precise, while the hunter (rule making) community either wants to keep things vague, or simply can’t agree on anything precise. You will also note that the description of what the judge is looking for is much more precise in dressage than hunters.
