The canyon that is the gap between 1st and 2nd level

I’m on the struggle bus right now and would love to hear from others who struggled to make the leap up to second but got there. I have a fairly talented horse that I have done all the riding on. I have a trainer that comes once a week weather dependent. I do not have a ring so I ride in a mowed field most of the time unless I have a chance to trailer out. I feel like we are SO CLOSE> but I have felt that way for a year now. We have many parts of second, but we haven’t quite closed the gap to call ourselves truly a second level pair. He struggles with tension, so making sure that as we make things harder he doesn’t lose his back is a constant struggle. His back is super short, so if he he gets tense it locks up immediately.

Not looking for training exercises or anything like that, we have great lessons and a great trainer. The problem is me and my ability to recreate the work on my own. This is the first time I have taken a horse this far, I’m proud of him and the work I’ve done but feel like every ride is groundhog day right now and we’re never going to get to 2nd.

Anyone else been through this and come out the other side?

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I see this a lot. I can’t say anything about your horse without seeing him, but it’s in general one of the points when any short cuts in the training can become obvious. Especially horses that have been going around in a false frame at First.

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I think one of the things that is making this so hard is I refuse to take shortcuts. I could 100% go into a 2nd level test at a show today. But it would be faking it and I don’t want to.

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Here is a blog post I wrote a few years ago. I called it “Second level slump”. I hope it helps.

It took me about five years to get my first dressage horse to 2nd level. The first scores were not fantastic but we improved throughout the season and ended up very competent at 2nd. I can tell you the one test I am most proud of had loads of 7’s and very few comments telling me that, in this test, I was definitely competent at 2nd level.
Of course we had some setbacks along the way, but I don’t think it’s unusu- al for beginners to do fairly well at training and first and then get stuck in the jump to 2nd. Why is that? My theory is that it’s all about collection.
2nd level is the first time we are asking for the horse to show some collection. If we look back to the training scale, you might have nailed the first few steps but when you add in the next steps, impulsion and collection, you lose the earlier steps, maybe rhythm, maybe suppleness. The training scale is not particularly linear. For example, you might find that as you work on straightness you lose impulsion. The steps are so intertwined.
The other thing is that dressage is really not about the tricks. You can train your horse to shoulder in and walk canter, but if they aren’t in a 2nd level way of going then you have not developed your horse sufficiently for 2nd level. In my opinion the movement that tells the most about the horse’s collection is the canter walk transition. The horse must have some level of uphill collection in order to do that cor- rectly. The walk canter is fairly easy to teach, you see hunter riders doing lovely smooth ones. Coming back down is more difficult.
Riders that have never felt collection before are going to have a tougher time working on this. They real- ly don’t know how it should feel, often they just end up going slower (losing impulsion). Of course learn- ing on a schoolmaster would be ideal but there are not many of us with access to this mythical beast.
2nd level is where the manure hits the fan. Someone told me that it separates the people who want to do dressage from the people who think they want to do dressage. That’s a pretty accurate description, it’s painful, there will be tears, but if you really want it you will persevere. Those small magical moments make it worthwhile.
The beginnings of collection can take a long time to develop, months and months of strengthening work. You might not be able to show until you have developed it enough. This where having an experi- enced coach becomes vital. They have to have trained enough horses through this phase that they can help you from the ground, or get in the saddle and show you if need be.
Collection is something that you will continue to improve all the way up to the ultimate collection of the Grand Prix.
So, if you feel stuck in a 2nd level slump, don’t despair, try to enjoy the journey. Patience and perseverance.

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thank you.

yes…been there and had to stay back a year in second level hell but did get past it! A lot of us say we hate second level LOL! Once you conquer it you will have learned so much!
I was training a horse up the levels for the first time and had to show second level two years in a row…I was so happy to go on to third because the collection was finally there!

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Think about the 2nd level lateral work as an exercise to help unlock the back and create bending.

I 100% have gotten stuck in the mode of “we must do a shoulder-in from this letter to that one and it must be perfect.” What really helped me was eventually seeing beyond the movement and using it to help improve the horse’s natural way of going.

Yes when the horse is learning how to shoulder-in, you are just “surviving” the movement. But think about what the exercise is doing and drill down on those and exaggerate them to help build strength and suppleness. For example, in one direction, the inside hind is weaker and he likes to neck bend - so for a few strides increase the angle and keep the neck straighter or even flex to the outside. You are building strength and suppleness there so when you ask for a “show ring” shoulder-in in the test, it’s easy for you plus you have access to increase the angle, change the neck, etc. to help fix things during the test.

Second level also takes more strength than most horses have naturally, and add in any confirmation faults to the challenge…I showed second level for 2 years and 10 days our last show of the season I was schooling a lot of the work and it was suddenly easy; it just took that long to build the strength and comfort in the work.

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Yeah, I hear you. We take breaks each week to do other things so we don’t get into it being too much of a chore…
To be clear, I’m not focused on the goal of a score. I essentially don’t go to shows because I don’t want to train for a show - I want to train to bring him along and move up the training scale. I only used the point that I could enter a 2nd level test today at a show to make the point that I KNOW we could fake it but I don’t want to fake it. I want a horse that is as well trained as he can be and happy being there.

My entire desire is to train him to do exactly as you say, move happily and comfortably as we work towards higher level of the training scale and the movements of each level. I do own the fact that my tension contributes to his. But I also know that we have to get through some hard things and right now it just feels like we aren’t moving forward. (I suspect that we are actually moving forward, but right now it feels glacial…)

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Second level is when I really had to up my own physical fitness. The core strength needed to properly ride the movements and help my horse execute them killed my back for almost a year. But we both got stronger and we got there. I promise, it’ll also be easier the second, third, and fourth time you try to make the leap from first to second. I haven’t struggled so much since that first horse I trained. I think that’s mostly because once you get past it to the higher levels, it starts to make so much more sense. Like, I think when I rode PSG and then went to train a first-to-second level horse it just made a lot more intuitive sense.

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Thank you for your reply.
My post has disappeared, for some reason. It says i deleted it but i did not.
I am glad it spoke to you.
I wish you and your horse all the best!

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this is such an excellent point!

I have a horse who is in the same boat and the strength thing is huge - she is finally learning to do what one of my trainers refers to as “standing up” - when she begins to sit and shift her weight back, and use her thoracic sling to lift in her shoulders all the time. It’s taken all summer and she is beginning to do it more consistently. It’s hard for sure. Hard for them as they develop the skills, understanding and strength and part of it just muddling through and trying.

One day our canter/walk went from canter-something-something-walk to canter THUD as she suddenly LANDED on that hind leg and could hold it. But it was canter THUD muddle/jig walk for another month. The rhythm that helped us was thinking ba da dum ba da dum ba da DUM DUM DUM as you go to the walk and keep the walk going without jigging or cantering again or falling in a heap.

But we had a lot of weeks this summer that felt like faking it with glimmers of maybe we’re getting there? And now it’s less muddling and more moments of ok, yes, that’s it.

Keep trying!

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Maybe get your trainer to sit on your horse a few times? That might help them uncover any holes.

Training is two steps forward, one step back always, to me. My horse is very capable at Second (scores this year in 70s with my trainer and 60s with me), but there are days where all I end up doing is a bunch of forward and back to get him up in front of my leg. Then some days he is so light and adjustable in all the lateral work and the CC. Some days his simple changes are great and sometimes he gets tense and they turn into twisty garbage so I do a lot of canter-walk on so he stops anticipating the canter.

And the hardest part is stringing it all together in a test at a show! I still haven’t mastered that.

It’s much more challenging than First, for sure!

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The balance changes. That is easy to read on paper and “know” yet so hard to create every ride and feel.

Stop thinking about second and start thinking about third and it will help a lot - because the movements in third are going to help your horse sit.

Have you started your changes? Sometimes its easier to teach the change and then add the counter canter work and the cc work helps straighten the change.

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This is wonderful reading, I’m thankful you started this thread. Really lovely insights from so many.

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I have gone through similar struggles with each horse I’ve brought up through the levels. It doesn’t matter how many times I’ve done it, each horse is different in its strengths vs. weaknesses. I have one I’m competing at third/fourth level now. It took me two solid years to get him to a decent second level proficiency but there were/are still holes in our training. He is extremely short backed. Tension (lack of suppleness) has always been our Achilles heal. His canter isn’t as good as his trot but that does not mean he doesn’t have a good canter. Despite having done this multiple times, one issue is that I’m older now. A fact that’s hard to swallow. Though I work out a ton and have a pretty strong core the problem I have been having all along with THIS guy is that my back has been tense and the directives to drive and develop impulsion/more forward has caused me to use my seat in a way that immediately translated to tensing my back. To be fair this guy tenses his back and prefers to be leg mover. As a result of the ‘driving/striving’ and his tenseness I was allowing it to affect my riding unknowingly. What was really causing me to think about checking into the looney bin is that this guy gets 7s or higher on his medium canter so I was really struggling with frustration all during second, third and now fourth level. I couldn’t figure out why this was happening. As for working on suppling exercises which are featured at second level, well he’s a master at SI, HI, renver, and half passes, capable of 7.5 -8s. Our canter has been improving but I know that until his canter is as elastic as his trot, we’ll continue to have issues. I wasn’t ready to throw in the towel but I decided to seek a new opinion despite having very capable coaches. In one lesson, the new instructor pointed out to me that the final puzzle piece missing in my flying changes hell (she wanted to see where we were) was that I was holding/tensing my lower back when I asked for the change preventing my guy from jumping and lifting through his withers. No wonder he wasn’t flying. Well not only was that an epiphany for me (didn’t have quite this much trouble when I was younger) but it has helped improve our collected canter, our mediums of both gaits and has helped me keep the tension at bay for much more of our riding than before…our barely a 6 walk is even better. For me, I’ve been always able to sit, follow, look as if I was one with the horse but again the constant directives from multiple instructors and clinicians telling me I needed my pony to be more forward and responsive (all true) had me falling into a negative spiral of driving with leg and seat instead of creating the gait and following more with my seat and lower back. I just assumed that my back was hurting because I’m a 60 year old who’s backed a lot of younguns’. My point in sharing all of this is that I’ve always known I was holding my pony back even if he is an expert at polite disobedience and it has taken so many layers to get peeled off that onion to really figure out how to keep his back supple. A very simple solution in the end but sometimes when you’re considered a reasonably accomplished rider and an older one at that I think some aspects are all too easily to overlook. Lots of head to palm moments since that lesson but at least we’re moving forward, no pun intended LOL. Good luck you will get there.

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I just thought I would insert that I read this instantly as “it’s not unusu-al to be loved! By anyone.”

But I loved your whole post. It really details the thought and work behind second level work.

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Second level demands a whole new level of body skills from the rider. You learn to let go of that inside rein, as you should have in all circles,even 10m circles. Spiral in from a 20m circle to a 10m then,maintaining that bend shove out on the circle in a straight line rather than going forward. So,your inside leg is maintaining the bend, Your outside lower leg keeps the haunches from straightening, and your outside knee and thigh hold the shoulders in place. All this while your shoulders follow the horse’s shoulders ( inside shoulder back, outside shoulder forward) and your head looks where you are going. All this while your hips move sideways. Then having mastered this , transfer it to a side wall, go from a 10m circle and just as the shoulder gets to the sall, turn only your head, look up at the far corner, use your hips and go there. Remember, no inside rein.

No problem. :wink:

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Yep, easy peasy. :rofl:

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We have started to work on changes. Some days are better than others