The canyon that is the gap between 1st and 2nd level

Thank you for your reply.
My post has disappeared, for some reason. It says i deleted it but i did not.
I am glad it spoke to you.
I wish you and your horse all the best!

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this is such an excellent point!

I have a horse who is in the same boat and the strength thing is huge - she is finally learning to do what one of my trainers refers to as “standing up” - when she begins to sit and shift her weight back, and use her thoracic sling to lift in her shoulders all the time. It’s taken all summer and she is beginning to do it more consistently. It’s hard for sure. Hard for them as they develop the skills, understanding and strength and part of it just muddling through and trying.

One day our canter/walk went from canter-something-something-walk to canter THUD as she suddenly LANDED on that hind leg and could hold it. But it was canter THUD muddle/jig walk for another month. The rhythm that helped us was thinking ba da dum ba da dum ba da DUM DUM DUM as you go to the walk and keep the walk going without jigging or cantering again or falling in a heap.

But we had a lot of weeks this summer that felt like faking it with glimmers of maybe we’re getting there? And now it’s less muddling and more moments of ok, yes, that’s it.

Keep trying!

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Maybe get your trainer to sit on your horse a few times? That might help them uncover any holes.

Training is two steps forward, one step back always, to me. My horse is very capable at Second (scores this year in 70s with my trainer and 60s with me), but there are days where all I end up doing is a bunch of forward and back to get him up in front of my leg. Then some days he is so light and adjustable in all the lateral work and the CC. Some days his simple changes are great and sometimes he gets tense and they turn into twisty garbage so I do a lot of canter-walk on so he stops anticipating the canter.

And the hardest part is stringing it all together in a test at a show! I still haven’t mastered that.

It’s much more challenging than First, for sure!

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The balance changes. That is easy to read on paper and “know” yet so hard to create every ride and feel.

Stop thinking about second and start thinking about third and it will help a lot - because the movements in third are going to help your horse sit.

Have you started your changes? Sometimes its easier to teach the change and then add the counter canter work and the cc work helps straighten the change.

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This is wonderful reading, I’m thankful you started this thread. Really lovely insights from so many.

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I have gone through similar struggles with each horse I’ve brought up through the levels. It doesn’t matter how many times I’ve done it, each horse is different in its strengths vs. weaknesses. I have one I’m competing at third/fourth level now. It took me two solid years to get him to a decent second level proficiency but there were/are still holes in our training. He is extremely short backed. Tension (lack of suppleness) has always been our Achilles heal. His canter isn’t as good as his trot but that does not mean he doesn’t have a good canter. Despite having done this multiple times, one issue is that I’m older now. A fact that’s hard to swallow. Though I work out a ton and have a pretty strong core the problem I have been having all along with THIS guy is that my back has been tense and the directives to drive and develop impulsion/more forward has caused me to use my seat in a way that immediately translated to tensing my back. To be fair this guy tenses his back and prefers to be leg mover. As a result of the ‘driving/striving’ and his tenseness I was allowing it to affect my riding unknowingly. What was really causing me to think about checking into the looney bin is that this guy gets 7s or higher on his medium canter so I was really struggling with frustration all during second, third and now fourth level. I couldn’t figure out why this was happening. As for working on suppling exercises which are featured at second level, well he’s a master at SI, HI, renver, and half passes, capable of 7.5 -8s. Our canter has been improving but I know that until his canter is as elastic as his trot, we’ll continue to have issues. I wasn’t ready to throw in the towel but I decided to seek a new opinion despite having very capable coaches. In one lesson, the new instructor pointed out to me that the final puzzle piece missing in my flying changes hell (she wanted to see where we were) was that I was holding/tensing my lower back when I asked for the change preventing my guy from jumping and lifting through his withers. No wonder he wasn’t flying. Well not only was that an epiphany for me (didn’t have quite this much trouble when I was younger) but it has helped improve our collected canter, our mediums of both gaits and has helped me keep the tension at bay for much more of our riding than before…our barely a 6 walk is even better. For me, I’ve been always able to sit, follow, look as if I was one with the horse but again the constant directives from multiple instructors and clinicians telling me I needed my pony to be more forward and responsive (all true) had me falling into a negative spiral of driving with leg and seat instead of creating the gait and following more with my seat and lower back. I just assumed that my back was hurting because I’m a 60 year old who’s backed a lot of younguns’. My point in sharing all of this is that I’ve always known I was holding my pony back even if he is an expert at polite disobedience and it has taken so many layers to get peeled off that onion to really figure out how to keep his back supple. A very simple solution in the end but sometimes when you’re considered a reasonably accomplished rider and an older one at that I think some aspects are all too easily to overlook. Lots of head to palm moments since that lesson but at least we’re moving forward, no pun intended LOL. Good luck you will get there.

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I just thought I would insert that I read this instantly as “it’s not unusu-al to be loved! By anyone.”

But I loved your whole post. It really details the thought and work behind second level work.

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Second level demands a whole new level of body skills from the rider. You learn to let go of that inside rein, as you should have in all circles,even 10m circles. Spiral in from a 20m circle to a 10m then,maintaining that bend shove out on the circle in a straight line rather than going forward. So,your inside leg is maintaining the bend, Your outside lower leg keeps the haunches from straightening, and your outside knee and thigh hold the shoulders in place. All this while your shoulders follow the horse’s shoulders ( inside shoulder back, outside shoulder forward) and your head looks where you are going. All this while your hips move sideways. Then having mastered this , transfer it to a side wall, go from a 10m circle and just as the shoulder gets to the sall, turn only your head, look up at the far corner, use your hips and go there. Remember, no inside rein.

No problem. :wink:

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Yep, easy peasy. :rofl:

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We have started to work on changes. Some days are better than others

It takes a year. Also, start your half steps now. Like yesterday. It will help the activity and the changes.

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I feel for you.

I have 2 lovely young barn mates who are new to showing, and are just killing it in the show ring at training and first this year on their well bred, beautifully moving 5 year olds with scores in the upper 70’s. Someone said to them at dinner the other night “and then they are going to make you ride second level…” They both looked a bit puzzled.

And then there’s Third… This has been my hill to die on this year.

I swore I wasn’t going back to 2nd level with my newish horse in our first show season together. I last showed on my now retired horse some 4 years ago at 2nd level with some reasonable success but we’d been at it for I think 2 or 3 years and were really over it, then he developed a chronic unsoundness, then Covid struck and that was that.

The long gap in showing time, combined with the big jump to Third have been incredibly challenging for me this year. Horsie is fine with it. Hes fit, sound and has done it all before. He thinks this stuff is pretty easy, but persuading him that he actually does need to demonstrate impulsion and collection while doing these piddly little movements with the old lady on top has been immensely difficult!

The long and the short of it being that every level is a pretty big step. And in my experience, The whole “one year per level” is hooey for most average adult amateurs.

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Half steps are good. But I find that working on going from collected to xtended within the canter is most important. For many riders the difficulty in changes lie within the rider. It again takes a lot of coordination and timing. Most horses change naturally.

Off Topic!
I had a horse who wouldn’t change, even for a pro. Galloping down a cornfield one day, a tree filled ditch lay ahead,and to the right. He was on the right lead. I prepared to die. :dizzy_face: Suddenly a switch to the left lead happened. :unicorn: He never was a stupid horse.

He did eventually as he grew stronger learn to change on command.

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They mostly all can change leads galloping at liberty. It’s teaching it on cue and with a rider that’s the challenge. If the horse never changed leads at liberty I’d hesitate to try to train it under saddle

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This is excellent advice. I will say that if you plan on showing, my FEI trainer recommends putting the changes on hold until show season is over. We were working on changes with good progress until about a month before our first show, then put them on hold until Regionals.

I am glad I did, because that little bit of extra tension at shows makes it so much easier to lose the lead in the canter loops, especially when my horse is like “well this would be easier, why don’t we just change?” Horses! So smart!

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Yeah good point. Definitly wouldnt practice changes with a second 3 canter loop but maybe op could school a lot of walk canter walk or only ask for the change over a pole and show maybe 2-1 where it is more shallow. :woman_shrugging:

Walk canter walk transitions are an excellent way to build the strength required for moving up.

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We do lots of those!

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This ^^! :heart:

Good luck in your journey. I would add: if you have shown at 1st, go back and read and reread, then really take to heart the judge’s comments. If you are struggling with any part of 2nd, I can assure you it was showing up in your first level work.

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