The Case of the Missing Derby Horse

[vxf111]

I never said the trainer shouldn’t file a police report and report the horse as missing. Nor did I say she’s “at fault.” I said she made herself look manipulative.

What I think was disingenuous is putting the public word out that the horse was STOLEN without providing the necessary context that there was a dispute over a bill relating to the horse (which would make it clearer that quite likely he was spirited away by the owner in an effort to avoid the bill and not snatched at random by an unrelated thief). She seemingly intentionally gave the impression that she had NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HORSE which, given the full context, seems very unlikely.

Certainly she should alert the police. ABSOLUTELY. I have no quibble with THAT. What I think showed an effort to manipulate the situation was all the public “half the story” messages she spread around. By calling up COTH and giving them only part of the story, and by posting all over social medial with only part of the story, she created a public frenzy based on assumptions that, if you know the WHOLE story, you suspect immediately as being incomplete. She 100% left the impression on FB that the horse was stolen and they had no idea by whom or why. That isn’t at all, factually, reasonable. Factually, it appears the owner (and yes until a sale happens she is still the owner even if she now owns something with a lien on it) caught wind of the sale over the owed board/training and took the horse to avoid that happening. TOTALLY different set of facts than what the trainer initially floated out there which had the (seemingly intentional) goal of getting people stoked up and looking all over for this horse that had been stolen by a stranger out of the blue.

[jetsmom]

@MHM

So it’s the trainer’s fault if an owner doesn’t pay? What do you suggest the trainer should do if the owner doesn’t pay the bill after 30 days? Eat the past due balance and tie the horse to a tree out front??

Its stupidity on the barn owner/mgr/trainers part to not evict client after 30 day delinquency. The bill didn’t get to 57k in a month, or even 6 mo.
With that said, I haven’t see any for Sale ads by owner, where they have tried to sell the horse, if they couldn’t afford board/training. So it looks like a low life owner stole horse back.

[APirateLooksAtForty]

@jetsmom

Its stupidity on the barn owner/mgr/trainers part to not evict client after 30 day delinquency. The bill didn’t get to 57k in a month, or even 6 mo.
With that said, I haven’t see any for Sale ads by owner, where they have tried to sell the horse, if they couldn’t afford board/training. So it looks like a low life owner stole horse back.

Multiple
people have tried to buy horse in the past and she won’t sell.

[vxf111]

I’ll also point out the irony in using what appears to be a stolen professional photo proof in a FB post about an allegedly stolen horse

[yankeeclipper]

In case you want to see the lien with the posting date. It is the same day as the horse was reported missing.

POSTED JANUARY 11, 2018 [h=1]Auctions[/h] agister’s lien sale KRS 424 auction for Tybee the horse (pursuant KRS 424)of Helen Brown of 121 Pearls Farm, Alpharetta, Georgia 30004 will be held on January 25,2018 at 8:00 am at La Estancia where the horse has resided since October 2016 located at 2628 Our Native Lane, Lexington, KY 40510. The owner Helen Brown has been delinquent in paying for services and care in the amount of $57,317. The auction is being held by Emily Williams 32 Richmond Ave, Lexington, KY 40502
http://forsythherald.com/stories/agisters-lien-sale-krs-424,123303

La Estancia Facebook Response (21 hours ago)
Sometime during the night, the horse Tybee was removed from his stall at the farm, with out the knowledge of La Estancia or the agent and trainer of the horse, Ms Emily Williams.

This removal was most likely due to the failure of the owner to pay bills owed to many people, including La Estancia and Ms Williams. Since the farm policy is that horses can not be removed from the farm until all board bills are paid in full, the horse was removed secretly at night.

We provide a safe and secure place to board high level performance horses. This is beyond anything we have ever experienced in the past.

Once again i want to assure people that this is a result of a dispute between the owner of Tybee and the agent and trainer Miss Williams.
https://www.facebook.com/laestanciallc/

[Hattie]

The horse has been listed for sale on Big Eq. A friend of mine inquired about the horse last week.

[DMK]

Gee, wonder who the agent is?

[SWatson]

As others have said, if you are a trainer and have not been paid for previous services rendered, why then would you continue providing services for the same client? There is no logic or reason in this. You only set yourself up for failure and you enable your client to continue to NOT pay you for ANY services you perform, as clearly, you are not eager to pursue the collection of what is owed.

Essentially you are not giving consequences for bad behavior and then getting mad for being taken advantage of. Nobody is saying the client is ok with what she has done, but we ARE saying that the trainer does have a part in this mess, and it applies to other situations.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[mmeqcenter]

@scrbear11

Unlikely as she has the local police involved. I believe it’s a felony to file a fraudulent report.

Edited to Add: I think Emily’s initial post was tactful. She attempted to find information about the missing horse without defaming anyone. Defamation = civil suit when that type of money is involved.

Completely agree with this.

[NeedsAdvil]

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5fCcaVFSJyQJ:https://bigeq.com/horse/listing/junior-hunterchild-ad-hunters-hanoverian-hunter-22814/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

[MHM]

Original article by The Chronicle has been updated with a statement from the owner’s lawyer:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/derby-horse-tybee-disappears

[merrygoround]

This is not the first, nor the last time, that a delinquent owner has spirited a horse from a property without paying their bill.
I would think that before that horse was sent up to auction, paperwork was presented to the Court. One does not decide, “Oh I’m owed money on this horse, I think I’ll auction it off”. There are legal steps to be taken.

As far as the owner goes, I hope her lawyer got a hefty binder in advance.

[BeeHoney]

@SWatson

As others have said, if you are a trainer and have not been paid for previous services rendered, why then would you continue providing services for the same client? There is no logic or reason in this. You only set yourself up for failure and you enable your client to continue to NOT pay you for ANY services you perform, as clearly, you are not eager to pursue the collection of what is owed.

Essentially you are not giving consequences for bad behavior and then getting mad for being taken advantage of. Nobody is saying the client is ok with what she has done, but we ARE saying that the trainer does have a part in this mess, and it applies to other situations.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Of course, you are absolutely right. However, many equine business owners do allow “big” clients to rack up large amounts of unpaid bills. IME, there are several reasons why.

New professionals might be very enthusiastic to take on a “big” new client, and very proud of that new client and/or their nice horses, and not want to risk losing the client. Sometimes less experienced professionals naively feel certain that if a client has enough money to own such nice horses, surely they have the money to pay the bills and will do so eventually. It’s definitely naive to assume that obviously wealthy owners with nice horses are “good pay” clients.

Losing a client is hard, and it looks bad for a business to lose a large client even if it was because of payment issues. If onlookers don’t know about the payment issues, they probably assume the client chose to go elsewhere. If onlookers do know about the payment issues, they might assume some kind of two sided drama–for example assuming the client didn’t pay because they weren’t happy with some aspect of the services.

Sometimes even experienced professionals sometimes choose to allow certain clients to run up large bills when they believe the client will be willing and able to pay later. For example, a pro might have a wealthy client who is in the process of selling a large asset and is having cash flow issues and choose to be less aggressive about collecting money owed right away. This is risky, but might be a reasonable thing to do in the case of a long term, good pay client. Personally, this isn’t a risk I’d take because I think that either way you have set a precedent that you don’t have to be paid promptly.

Or, an experienced professional might allow bills to accumulate when the horses boarded on the property have enough value to more than adequately cover the bills when sold at auction, including lawyer fees. In this scenario, a trainer/BO should obviously make sure that they have adequate security to prevent the horse/s from being spirited away in the night. This is a very rare scenario–you have to factor in legal bills, care and training of the horse while affairs are being arranged, and the costs of selling, and the fact that horses sold at private auction usually sell for much less than they are worth.

FWIW, there are plenty of shady/predatory clients out there with money and nice horses who make a practice of shopping for new professionals and new barns and then leaving without paying their bills–knowing that many inexperienced professionals/BOs are hungry for new/fancy clients but won’t have an effective collections system in place, and will be embarrassed to tell people they got taken advantage of.

[findeight]

Some of these sale horse situations rack up some hefty past due amounts because of assuming the sale price will cover the bill and with high 5 figure+ price tags, it’s a little easier to understand. I’ve heard of more then 57k on a few. It’s not hard to get there at 3-5k a month with the proceeds from the sale in the form of clearing the past due plus commission like a carrot on a stick to keep trainer getting the horse to shows to get it seen by buyers.

If, in fact, owner really had/has no intention of selling and just pushed on until EW had enough and followed the KY procedures in putting a lien on the horse? Hard to put all the blame on the trainer for getting intentionally manipulated. Being naive, yeah but she’s not the first to end up in the situation, if EW did follow the legal steps, owner stole the horse.

BTW, when these AA level horses do go up for auction…the auction must be public and publicized but it doesn’t have to be the local low end sale yard, might even be on the home property with an auctioneer and typically it’s well known among the local trainer community the horse is going to ge auctioned. Only truck coming is the new trainers rig. Or the consigning trainer bids and buys it. Of course they won’t get anything on the past due if that happens.

[rothmpp]

First of all - I rarely have pity for a trainer that allows a client to run up a bill to this level. I can see a couple of months, but then - horse goes out in the field. He’ll get fed, but no more cushy stall, no more expensive supplements (allergy meds MAY be another story), no more grooming (other than a basic look to make sure there’s nothing going wrong), DEFINITELY no more training rides or showing. Pull his shoes. It doesn’t cost all that much to turn a horse out. It’s going to take YEARS to get $60k in the hole in this scenario.

BUT - if the trainer chooses to keep the horse going, be it they feel that the owner is good for it or it’s the nicest horse the trainer has access to - that’s on the trainer.

Understand - I’m not excusing any owner who just doesn’t pay their bills - but every time I read about a huge past due bill going to a stableman’s lien and auction, it reminds me why there is a certain percentage of failed companies in any business - some people are just not cut out to be business managers. There comes a point that you have to make sound financial decisions. When I explained to the trainer who was selling my horse that if she got a slightly low offer very early on, I’d be much more likely to take it - the longer he’s with her, there quickly comes a point of diminishing returns. She looked at me and said “there are so few owners out there that actually bother to do the math”.

[MHM]

@rothmpp

First of all - I rarely have pity for a trainer that allows a client to run up a bill to this level. I can see a couple of months, but then - horse goes out in the field. He’ll get fed, but no more cushy stall, no more expensive supplements (allergy meds MAY be another story), no more grooming (other than a basic look to make sure there’s nothing going wrong), DEFINITELY no more training rides or showing. Pull his shoes. It doesn’t cost all that much to turn a horse out. It’s going to take YEARS to get $60k in the hole in this scenario.

BUT - if the trainer chooses to keep the horse going, be it they feel that the owner is good for it or it’s the nicest horse the trainer has access to - that’s on the trainer.

Except- if the trainer belatedly realizes that the owner is a deadbeat, and the trainer might have to sell the horse to settle the large overdue bill, is the horse going to be easier to sell for a hefty amount if it’s been barefoot out in a field for months? Or in work and in show ready condition?

If the trainer is between a rock and a hard place to get the past due amount, it doesn’t make much sense to let the only available asset deteriorate in any way. It’s not as if an owner of one horse is likely to have $60,000 worth of extra saddles sitting in the barn that could be sold off to cover the bill. Note the earlier post from someone who sold a broodmare for $250 to settle a $25,000 board blll. That math doesn’t work either.

Again, speaking generally. I have no knowledge of the specifics of this current situation.

[MHM]

@MHM

Except- if the trainer belatedly realizes that the owner is a deadbeat, and the trainer might have to sell the horse to settle the large overdue bill, is the horse going to be easier to sell for a hefty amount if it’s been barefoot out in a field for months? Or in work and in show ready condition?

If the trainer is between a rock and a hard place to get the past due amount, it doesn’t make much sense to let the only available asset deteriorate in any way. It’s not as if an owner of one horse is likely to have $60,000 worth of extra saddles sitting in the barn that could be sold off to cover the bill. Note the previous post from someone who ended up selling a broodmare for $250 to cover a $25,000 board bill. That math doesn’t work either.

Again, speaking generally. I have no knowledge of the specifics of this current situation.

[nctoma]

The thought occurred to me–how do we even know that this owner really, truly owes 57K? EW posted on her FB post that the Agister’s Lien ad wasn’t authorized to be posted and has been removed.

Has anyone considered that maybe the owner and trainer had a some sort of deal to reduce fees/board to get the trainer out to shows on a nice horse and maybe a bigger commission, then the relationship soured and all of a sudden EW is “owed” 57K in full fees…haven’t we all seen that sort of “he said, she said” before?? I’ve got to say, seen that even at small-time boarding establishments. You give notice and a huge new bill shows up for lots of supposed unpaid services rendered.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@nctoma That makes a great deal of sense to me–this is certainly a world in which I don’t play in but even at lower-end barns, I’m sure we’re all familiar with how agreements can go sour along the lines of “if you help me out by doing x, y. z, then I will cut you a break on doing xy.” One party claims that they fulfilled the verbal agreement (often a vague one) while the other party claims the terms weren’t fulfilled and now demands full payment for the services they offered. Even on COTH we’ve seen lots of people post questions about what they really owe when a trainer or a client (in their eyes) does not hold up his/her half of the bargain.

Also, it’s not unheard-of in a legal dispute to allege that the largest sum possible is owed, with the assumption that whatever is awarded will be beneath that.

Perhaps the trainer wanted the horse to get some nice wins on (and liked the horse) but the client was too much crazy to deal with?

Again, this is all speculation. I’m writing this drama in my head but deep down I feel that anything I come up with will be anticlimactic when and if the real story comes out.

[mmeqcenter]

@bugsynskeeter

That is how an agister’s lien or stablemen’s lien works. You don’t get to just take possession of the horse. It has to be sold at public auction. And there is no guarantee it will sell for any amount. We had someone owe us $25,000 for a broodmare and her foal that were abandoned at the farm. I think we got $250 in the auction.

She may very well purchase the horse through the auction.

Maybe it varies per state, but a lawyer (in Florida) told me you can (and should, for this very reason) set a reserve so that, if not met, the horse doesn’t sell but you still take possession and can then sell in a private sale, because by holding the auction you have fulfilled your legal duty with the lien process; or have an opening bid of what you are owed up to that point.
That totally sucks you lost out like that. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone actually showing up at an Agister’s lien auction!