The Case of the Missing Derby Horse

[Blinky]

I have to think there is more to this. It’s not like this is Emily’s or Helen’s first rodeo.

[findeight]

@nctoma

The thought occurred to me–how do we even know that this owner really, truly owes 57K? EW posted on her FB post that the Agister’s Lien ad wasn’t authorized to be posted and has been removed.

Has anyone considered that maybe the owner and trainer had a some sort of deal to reduce fees/board to get the trainer out to shows on a nice horse and maybe a bigger commission, then the relationship soured and all of a sudden EW is “owed” 57K in full fees…haven’t we all seen that sort of “he said, she said” before?? I’ve got to say, seen that even at small-time boarding establishments. You give notice and a huge new bill shows up for lots of supposed unpaid services rendered.

Of course. I mentioned sometimes trainers get into these jams by being naive. Maybe she was. But…her Dad was a long time Trainer/dealer and pretty sure she knew the owner before taking the horse on. I’ll leave it at that.

Sounds like the lien was properly obtained, we’ll watch what happens next.

[bugsynskeeter]

@mmeqcenter

Maybe it varies per state, but a lawyer (in Florida) told me you can (and should, for this very reason) set a reserve so that, if not met, the horse doesn’t sell but you still take possession and can then sell in a private sale, because by holding the auction you have fulfilled your legal duty with the lien process; or have an opening bid of what you are owed up to that point.
That totally sucks you lost out like that. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone actually showing up at an Agister’s lien auction!

We wanted to mare and foal gone. I don’t think Kentucky allowed us to set a reserve, but I would think you could just bid at whatever the low fee was, take ownership, and then resell the horse for what it was “worth.”

[bugsynskeeter]

@MHM

Note the earlier post from someone who sold a broodmare for $250 to settle a $25,000 board blll. That math doesn’t work either.

We wanted to mare and foal gone and off our feed bill. They weren’t worth the bill that was left for them.

[MintHillFarm]

Wouldn’t EW have had to go through legal channels to have the horse sold? I am confused that she alluded to the fact the horse was stolen.

[findeight]

@MintHillFarm

Wouldn’t EW have had to go through legal channels to have the horse sold? I am confused that she alluded to the fact the horse was stolen.

She has gone through legal channels and has a lien under the KY required procedures on horse for non payment and the owner of anything from autos to zebras cannot move that property named in the lien until the debt is settled plus the lien holder has the right to publically auction the property. Owner had no right to remove the horse and knew darn well she didn’t or she wouldn’t have snuck it out in the middle of the night (along with the wrong tack trunk) and announced she took the horse back through her lawyer.

No doubt there’s more to this story but owner should have involved her lawyer far earlier to settle the issues and not pulled this kind of stunt. She left the horse there for a long time so it’s a little late to whine she wasn’t happy with things (she didn’t pay for anyway). If there are signed contracts and copies of attempts to collect as required by KY law…owner did steal the horse.

Probably fault and nastiness on both sides but there was a lien in place. Have to wait and see what shakes out.

[pinkpony321]

what was the similar pony saga that happened a few years back?

[AllOverFarm]

Very sad situation all the way around.
Ive heard of some trainers occasionally taking sale horses " on the cusp", agreeing to pay the horses monthly expenses & in turn, getting that money back on the sale. Not saying this was the case here. But, If agreements like that aren’t in writing, I could see if there was a disagreement between trainer & owner at some point. I could understand the trainer might think she’s owed what she put into the horse.

[APirateLooksAtForty]

@AllOverFarm

Very sad situation all the way around.
Ive heard of some trainers occasionally taking sale horses " on the cusp", agreeing to pay the horses monthly expenses & in turn, getting that money back on the sale. Not saying this was the case here. But, If agreements like that aren’t in writing, I could see if there was a disagreement between trainer & owner at some point. I could understand the trainer might think she’s owed what she put into the horse.

On the cuff

[DMK]

@Blinky

I have to think there is more to this. It’s not like this is Emily’s or Helen’s first rodeo.

and don’t forget LP. My first thought when I figured out all the players was “A few dogs. SO MANY fleas…”

[2tempe]

I read on FB that EW went into the barn first thing in the AM, horse was gone. She said she tried to reach owner a number of times in a short period, that normally she was easy to reach, this time nothing. So she was worried that perhaps something also happened to owner. Thus the call to police - and even if she had suspicion as to who took it, there’s always a chance that someone will call a published # if they see the horse…
Reasonable story when you think about what your reaction would be at the crack of dawn - dont know if its true or not…

Were it me - first w/ no coffee “OMG Horse Stolen” an hour later with caffeine - “gee I bet xxx took it given the circumstances”. :winkgrin:

[ComingAttraction]

@marginall

I don’t know anything about this situation, but in general, trainers, when your client’s bill is 30 days late, stop. Just stop. Stop giving them lessons, stop riding their horse, stop encouraging them to show, stop taking their horse to horse shows for your own benefit. Give them 30 days to pay up or move out. Anything you do and don’t get paid for after 30 days past due is your own fault. If the rest of the world operated the way trainers do business, the world’s economy would have collapsed decades ago. Trainers need to accept some responsibility.

You know that sounds wonderful EXCEPT we have “a burden of care.” If we do not take care of the Horse we can be charged with neglect, abuse etc. Emily followed the law and put a stable lein against the Horse. I think making it public was what she needed to do. Hopefully the heat is on and their attorneys can come to an agreement.

[Lord_Helpus]

I know that I know nothing. But one of the things I do know is that a bill for $57,000 can be run up in less than 6 months. Hell, having a horse at WEF can cost $40,000 just forthe winter shows. It is all very good to sit behind a keyboard and castigate the trainer — but real life does not work that way. No one expects a customer, who must have given the appearance of wealth, to be in a position of running away from bills. I hope Emily gets what she is owed and the horse gets a good new owner.

I don’t know what happens now that the owner has the horse. Will she be in deep(er) doo-doo if the horse is not presented for the auction next week?

[NeedsAdvil]

@Lord Helpus

I know that I know nothing. But one of the things I do know is that a bill for $57,000 can be run up in less than 6 months. Hell, having a horse at WEF can cost $40,000 just forthe winter shows.

EW stated that the bills hadn’t been paid for 16 months.

I can imagine she was between a rock and a hard place with wanting to keep a nice horse like that in her barn to help her grow as a pro, and also hoping eventually the owner would get caught up on the bill. I don’t think anyone can put the blame squarely on her for allowing the bill to climb. Also, I googled Helen Brown and found some weird stuff with the real estate history of her address that leads me to believe maybe there were some financial issues going on and this is not the case of her being unhappy with the care/training of the horse.

[APirateLooksAtForty]

@Lord Helpus

I know that I know nothing. But one of the things I do know is that a bill for $57,000 can be run up in less than 6 months. Hell, having a horse at WEF can cost $40,000 just forthe winter shows. It is all very good to sit behind a keyboard and castigate the trainer — but real life does not work that way. No one expects a customer, who must have given the appearance of wealth, to be in a position of running away from bills. I hope Emily gets what she is owed and the horse gets a good new owner.

I don’t know what happens now that the owner has the horse. Will she be in deep(er) doo-doo if the horse is not presented for the auction next week?

thank you for this. Very easy to run up a bill that high. People not in the game need to take the judgy pants off as far as the costs associated with this sport.

[SuzieQNutter]

So what happens next? As it is now known that the owner stole the horse, can’t the police be called to get it back?

[PeteyPie]

@APirateLooksAtForty

On the cuff

I think you are right, but it could be looked at from the point of view that the horse was anticipated to sell for a higher value due to its rising status and training.

I learned something today. I had not heard the idiom “on the cuff” before, only the other, “off the cuff” which of course has a totally different meaning.

From Merriam Webster:

[h=2]Definition of on the cusp[/h] : at the point when something is about to change to something else

• She is [I]on the cusp[/I] of being a star.
• [I]on the cusp[/I] between childhood and adolescence
• I was born [I]on the cusp[/I]between Leo and Virgo.

[h=2]Definition of on the cuff[/h] — on the cuff : on credit

• transacting business [I]on the cuff[/I]

[Pennywell_Bay]

@APirateLooksAtForty

thank you for this. Very easy to run up a bill that high. People not in the game need to take the judgy pants off as far as the costs associated with this sport.

I am in the game. I’m not judging the trainer but I think it is valid for someone to wonder why it took 16 months. Even with the appearance of wealth, 16 months is a long time to continue without being paid. Most of the pros I know, and it is a lot of them- high end AA trainers, would not carry a non-paying client that long and continue to show the horse.

[Princess_Sparkles]

@Pennywell Bay

I am in the game. I’m not judging the trainer but I think it is valid for someone to wonder why it took 16 months. Even with the appearance of wealth, 16 months is a long time to continue without being paid. Most of the pros I know, and it is a lot of them- high end AA trainers, would not carry a non-paying client that long and continue to show the horse.

Did she show the horse the entire 16 months? I could see running up a pretty impressive bill towards the beginning of the non-payment if the horse was showing, and then once the trainer figured out the owner wasn’t going to pay up, the horse stayed home. She probably kept the horse in work and in the barn . . . as much as I would like to say she should have tossed the horse on outside board to keep costs down, the reality is she could have been held responsible for anything that happened as a result (ie if the horse injured himself in turnout or something). This is a valuable horse, not a regular pleasure horse. While they all deserve equally good care, the trainer could have found herself in hot water if something happened to the horse because she changed his routine to cut costs. Not to mention that he will command a higher price at auction if he is fit, in work, and looking nice.

I am just a small BO with regular old boarded horses, but this happened to me. Luckily the horse was on outside board already, but it was a TB mare who honestly needed more than just free choice hay. We don’t provide grain to outside horses at our regular board rate, which the mare’s owner wasn’t even paying. The horse was my no means emaciated, but she didn’t look shiny and round like everything else on my farm. Her feet were crappy because the owner obviously wasn’t paying farrier either (farrier did the mare once and never got paid). It ate away at me that I couldn’t take care of this horse the way I wanted to because we weren’t being paid. I even offered to assume ownership of the horse and the owner refused. Threatened a lien and selling the horse at auction but didn’t want to do that to the mare (green as grass ex-racehorse mare? Chances of ending up somewhere crappy was high). Ended up finding out which barn the girl worked at and, after warning her first, dropped the mare and her stuff off there one day. Had to stop the bleeding; even on outside board the mare was eating hay and taking up time each day that we could have used on a paying horse.

I have nothing but sympathy for trainers who have non-paying clients. Horses are living, breathing animals that require expensive care whether the owners are paying or not. Since I have care, custody and control of boarded horses I can’t just stop feeding them (not that I would). Now, if this trainer continued to show the horse against the instructions of the client (ie ‘I can’t afford it, leave the horse at home’) then the trainer should not be charging the client for those bills. But I can see how, over the course of 16 months, a $57,000 bill could be wracked up for a horse like this, especially if there were any vet bills during that time that the trainer covered.

[pinkpony321]

yeah, one season at WEF TEN YEARS AGO for an AA, not even a big timer, was over 40K. granted we were in a barn, not a tent, with turnout and full service grooms, but i can’t imagine what that costs now. I wish I could do it again but that is NOT in the budget.

was there any update on this?