The Chronic Bolter

[Czar]

I was just thinking of a horse I worked with a few years back - he was the only one I couldn’t fix and it still irks me to this day. Wondering if anyone else has successfully retrained a chronic bolted/spinner.

This horse was only 8, lovely WB gelding, well-bred, good looking. He was free, yes free, red flag number 1 to an older lady who got hurt when he spun her off one day.

The horse was well-trained and I learned after the fact that he had made his way through a bunch of pros before ending up on this lady’s little farm (yes someone gave an older lady a dangerous horse but that is a whole 'nother thread).

He was lightning fast; NO indications at all that he was going to spin. One minute, you’d be trotting around and the next, you were going in the opposite direction. The spin was his favourite tool but he also bolted - like, nothing can stop me, zero to mach 9 in 2 seconds kind of bolt. Again, no warning. He didn’t spook or even twitch an ear.

I had to back him into a corner to get on him or he would spin me off just as I went to put my leg over. I rode him in the lightest tack I could find, hacked him out, and did lots of stuff on the ground with him. The thing was, he never spooked. He wasn’t nervous at all.

Anyway, after trying for a number of months, I told the lady NOT to ride this horse and make sure nobody else did. I said you might be able to find a cowboy to work with him…gain his trust or get him to submit ( I think he had figured out he was stronger/bigger than his humans) and that might work for a while but I really didn’t think his issues could be trained out of him. I’ve never met such a wicked, smart horse.

Anyway, I was curious to see if anyone else has rehabbed a horse like that…as in, hasn’t relapsed and can be ridden.

[BostonHJ]

No personal experience - but I wonder if it was a kissing spines thing?

[NoSuchPerson]

I broke several ribs coming off a horse that was exactly like that. Lightning fast, no indication at all of what was coming. I found out after the fact that the horse had done the same thing to a number of other people, one of whom also ended up in the ER. The owner insisted that the horse didn’t have a problem and was just “spooky.”

Anyway, I don’t believe that a horse like that can be cured. An experienced rider may be able to maintain focus and keep the horse busy enough and controlled enough that the horse can’t find an opportunity to do it, but it will always be there in his bag of tricks.

[rugbygirl]

If there’s really NO warning, I’d be inclined to think this was one of those horses that had a screw loose.

OTOH, I have a reformed bolter. Several driving trainers tried to use her in hitch and for farm work, and she’d seem fine, especially in a team, and for a few times on her own…then she’d decide to bolt. She’s a big draft, and as I learned working with her, the signals for fear/anxiety can be pretty subtle.

Once I figured out what she was telling me though, it was relatively easy to figure her out. She HATED being confined. She once tore a set of cross ties out of the ground. Her default response to anything that startled her was to bolt, then spin. Ditch the equipment that held her, and even the rider…then book out of there. She needed a bit of a soft touch, and time to figure out new situations. Once she trusted me a little, I could start introducing things that had scared her (like cross ties) and give her time to sort it out, and some pats and quiet reassurance. She kept the “startle,” and this mare is afraid of/doesn’t understand A LOT. Like she still hasn’t managed to learn that a camera flash WILL NOT be followed by thunder. Or that the sound of her mane being pulled/brushed IS NOT the click of an electric fence. What she DID learn was to quiet down the response, to a head-up/ear flick and MAYBE a side step…but as long as her person was with her and confident, she’d give these scary things a chance.

This mare has two things going for her that made solving this problem a lot easier. She really does have a good work ethic, and she’s not clever or dominant. Once she understands the job and feels like she has a strong leader, “get outta here” is no longer her preferred response.

[Backstage]

I’ve never dealt with one, but based on observations/discussions with others, I think it really depends on WHY the horse is bolting.

If the horse bolts in response to a particular stimulus (say, crowded warm up ring), I think you can both avoid the situation and also work to build up the horse’s tolerance to that situation once you figure out the trigger. The same would apply to a bolter who has learned to manipulate his rider with bolting - depending on how long it has been going on, the bolter, in the right hands, can learn that bolting does not help him get out of work with a good and very consistent rider. That horse, though, may never be suitable for a timid or nervous rider as he will likely fall back on his evasive ways pretty quickly.

The really problematic ones are those that respond to any undesirable stimulus with bolting, or have a physical issue that goes undiagnosed even if investigated. I think in both those instances, it can be near impossible with a confirmed bolter. A good rider might be able to reduce the frequency (even with an existing physical issue), but it won’t go away and will continue to pop up.

Personally, I’m not willing to take one on and try and figure out the root cause. I know that a bolter would ruin my confidence pretty quickly, and I would not be to effectively try and deal with the problem.

[SmartAlex]

Some horses are dishonest. Short of putting the fear of God in them, there aren’t too many ways to “retrain” dishonesty.

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

I’ve found tooth pain to be an issue in two cases. One had a just-below-the-surface wolf tooth, and the other had a broken molar. They were both reliable horses until “randomly” stopping/spinning/bolting or just flat-out bolting straight forward. Discovering and fixing the teeth solved the problem.

[joiedevie99]

I knew one (wasn’t mine). It always started with a spook. You had a half second to change the subject before his brain literally turned off and he ran off in a blind panic. As soon as he started to run, there was nothing you could do - no control at all. You could yell at him and it was like he didn’t hear you.

He was retired. It was only a matter of time before he ran into a building, or the road, and hurt someone.

[SuzieQNutter]

I had this experience on a horse who bolted because he could see a straight road in front of him.

I was told of one way to cure. I don’t condone it or recommend it, but I was told it worked.

You ride in a ploughed round field with whip and spurs.

The horse bolts and round and round you go. The ploughed field means it is hard work for them and tires them out a bit faster for you, as bolting horses seem to be able to go on forever.

When they finally decide they are going to slow down you urge them on.

You keep doing that until you lay in with whip and spur until they can’t go any further.

Then the theory is that if they bolt you immediately lay in with whip and spur and they stop…

[largo]

My first pony was one of these. He was a lesson pony who flunked out because he’d take off with the kids… My mom bought him for me (cheap) when I was 10 and we had some great shows together, walk-trot. Whenever we would canter I had to constantly be aware otherwise he would tuck and run. Even when I got him stopped he would most likely do it again soon after. He was asked to leave pony club after one horrific rally where he bolted (I think) 5 times in the warm up ring… never even made it to the actual ring! After that I learned that if i pushed him forward and made him gallop faster longer than he wanted that he would be like “oh this isn’t what I wanted!” So in short, we did fix it for awhile… however when he was about 15 he started enjoying the extra gallop and I moved on to a horse so he was retired. He’s now 21 and happy to be a pet. On occasion he does leadline but no more than a walk.

[anotherera]

One trainer has had a lot of success with reforming WB’s and other breeds that come to him from the SF bay area. He has had those that bolt besides other dangerous proclivities. His name is Warwick Schiller, and he is a reining trainer and clinician. He is from Australia and uses many of the same methods as Clinton Anderson, Richard Winters, etc. Check out his videos on youtube.

[beau159]

My first thought to rule out would be PAIN. What kind of vet evaluation did this horse have?

While the problem certainly can be behavioral in nature, I think it is only fair to the horse to ensure 100% that they are not hurting in any way (lameness eval, teeth, chiro, etc)

[Czar]

The horse was checked over fully by a vet (multiple times - both when he started to do this and also with the lady I knew)…no issues.

I do believe he was born dishonest, as SmartAlex put it. Oh, and super super smart.

I’ve heard of Warwick Schiller - I actually watched his video on a bolter but this horse, unlike most, gave NO indication. You couldn’t even feel it in his energy. He was not a spooky horse at all. The thing was, I do believe he would have gone well with that type of trainer ONCE AND A WHILE. I mean, I had a few nice rides on him, even jumped him a bit. Went hacking…he wasn’t bad all of the time. Super unpredictable though - nothing seemed to set him off. You could have watched a behavioural trainer with him in a video and believed that the horse was cured. Until the next time he didn’t want to play.

I think maybe if he had been just a bolter, the gallop thing might have worked but he also had a wicked spin. He would change it up too; if he couldn’t spin you off…he’d bolt and if that didn’t work, he’d throw in a spin.

I worked with another bolter, a pony, he was a runaway and would actually run you right down. I was able to strong arm him into a better citizen…he just needed to meet his match but this horse was different. What I wouldn’t have given to have been a fly on the wall during his younger years.

[SuzieQNutter]

The horse I was riding we later found out the guy who loaned him to us was a pathological liar.

He lent him to my mum to ride who was over 50 years old and her horse was lame when we were going to go on a trail ride with the pony club

I was an instructor.

I rode him at home. I jumped him. I rode him in the State Forest. There was no problem as there was a fence or a bend on the horizon.

I was taking him to the pony club. I had on a snaffle and draw reins tied out of the way on his neck.

He went quietly and willingly until we turned a corner and the road looked straight to the horizon.

He went from a free walk on a loose rein at Redeemer College on Rochedale Road, Qld.

He was on a road and going too fast to try and turn, he would have slipped over for sure.

I tried everything. I tried two reins. I tried one rein. I unknotted the draw reins and pulled with all my strength. I tried letting go of the reins and talking to him. I was an eventer so I was fit enough to ride 3 horses in A One Day Event.

I tried sitting back and hauling with all my strength. I am not a lightweight. He didn’t even know I was there. Talking to him didn’t achieve anything either.

When we reached the lights at Rochedale State School a car saw us coming and started to slow. He just pulled out into the oncoming lane to overtake. I was lucky there was nothing coming. I did manage to get him back onto the left hand side. We drive on the left hand side in Australia.

By now I am exhausted. I am no longer trying to do anything other than balance in 2 point seat…he galloped on and on and on. As long as that road was straight he was going to keep going.

He had new shoes put on the day before.

This continued until the road started to go down to where there was the Rochedale Bakery. We had now gone kilometres snd kilometres. As we started to go down he had the first inkling that galloping down a road is not a good idea. He tried to stop, he started to skate.

He started galloping again and then he just put on all 4 brakes and he skated down that hill.

There was the most awful sound from the shoes on the concrete. I looked down there was smoke, orange sparks and blue flames.

On the way down he must have flipped over onto his fetlocks and one side.

He skated to a stop and fell to the side and I jumped off. People came running from everywhere and there was no housing there at the time.

I threw the reins at the nearest guy and said I would go into the bakery and ring Mum. No mobile phones back then.

I called Mum and the guy came in and said, “Your horse got up”. He was afraid of horses and let go. People who don’t know horses actually don’t know they are frightened of horses until they see one close.

I went out and he was walking down the road.

His shoes were paper thin. He had a hole burned into the front of both fetlocks. He had a hole in his left hip. The reins were damaged.

The farrier arrived as Mum sent him. He held onto the reins to walk the horse home outside the car. That horse cantered home the whole way home oolutside that car window, holes and all. I was advised to never ride him again, by everybody.

Mum made me get on my horse as soon as I was home.

The vet was called and he was stitched up. He left the next day and I am sure that the owner probably lent him to someone else without telling them what happened.

[purplnurpl]

you don’t have any idea what kind of initial training this had either, right?

sounds like he was trained to do that trick early on.

I had a go with one who had been taught to buck when she was started at a 3 year old. Was a western guy. She tossed him and he broke his femur.

After a year with her I told her owner that she would never be safe to ride. Along with her bronc type of buck she also had no self preservation when being naughty. It was like she had no brain when she was doing it and that feeling scares the boogers out of me.

It was a shame. It had to do with her being girthy. I really do think if she had been started in a different manner she would have been a different horse.

Just goes to show…everything about horses is a crap shoot.

[Czar]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8085085]
The horse I was riding we later found out the guy who loaned him to us was a pathological liar.

He lent him to my mum to ride who was over 50 years old and her horse was lame when we were going to go on a trail ride with the pony club

I was an instructor.

I rode him at home. I jumped him. I rode him in the State Forest. There was no problem as there was a fence or a bend on the horizon.

I was taking him to the pony club. I had on a snaffle and draw reins tied out of the way on his neck.

He went quietly and willingly until we turned a corner and the road looked straight to the horizon.

He went from a free walk on a loose rein at Redeemer College on Rochedale Road, Qld.

He was on a road and going too fast to try and turn, he would have slipped over for sure.

I tried everything. I tried two reins. I tried one rein. I unknotted the draw reins and pulled with all my strength. I tried letting go of the reins and talking to him. I was an eventer so I was fit enough to ride 3 horses in A One Day Event.

I tried sitting back and hauling with all my strength. I am not a lightweight. He didn’t even know I was there. Talking to him didn’t achieve anything either.

When we reached the lights at Rochedale State School a car saw us coming and started to slow. He just pulled out into the oncoming lane to overtake. I was lucky there was nothing coming. I did manage to get him back onto the left hand side. We drive on the left hand side in Australia.

By now I am exhausted. I am no longer trying to do anything other than balance in 2 point seat…he galloped on and on and on. As long as that road was straight he was going to keep going.

He had new shoes put on the day before.

This continued until the road started to go down to where there was the Rochedale Bakery. We had now gone kilometres snd kilometres. As we started to go down he had the first inkling that galloping down a road is not a good idea. He tried to stop, he started to skate.

He started galloping again and then he just put on all 4 brakes and he skated down that hill.

There was the most awful sound from the shoes on the concrete. I looked down there was smoke, orange sparks and blue flames.

On the way down he must have flipped over onto his fetlocks and one side.

He skated to a stop and fell to the side and I jumped off. People came running from everywhere and there was no housing there at the time.

I threw the reins at the nearest guy and said I would go into the bakery and ring Mum. No mobile phones back then.

I called Mum and the guy came in and said, “Your horse got up”. He was afraid of horses and let go. People who don’t know horses actually don’t know they are frightened of horses until they see one close.

I went out and he was walking down the road.

His shoes were paper thin. He had a hole burned into the front of both fetlocks. He had a hole in his left hip. The reins were damaged.

The farrier arrived as Mum sent him. He held onto the reins to walk the horse home outside the car. That horse cantered home the whole way home oolutside that car window, holes and all. I was advised to never ride him again, by everybody.

Mum made me get on my horse as soon as I was home.

The vet was called and he was stitched up. He left the next day and I am sure that the owner probably lent him to someone else without telling them what happened.[/QUOTE]

That’s a crazy story!! Sounds like a screw loose

[enjoytheride]

My grey mare was a bolter, she had some rough handling and shed just take off if she heard something, she thought you were going to punish her, etc. Even better she had major issues with you being in her mouth so shed go from bolt to rear to bolt. I tackled her in two ways, first she needed to trust me so sh wasnt afraid of being ridden.

Second, I needed to shut down the bolt fast. I used a running martingale set really short so I had a lot of leverage. I would set her on her ass then drop the reins and act like nothing happened.

All that said, you cant cure a horse of a vice, only minimize it and she was still prone to taking off the entire time i rode her if something bothered her. Especially if someone else was riding her and they annoyed her.

[findeight]

Depends on why its bolting. If its a learned vice caused by bad riding/training it can be overcome to some extent, always be there but greatly reduced.

If it is caused by pain or physical problem (declining vision for example) its not going away unless the pain goes away. Even after that is cleared, if it learned the behavior got it out of work or dealing with stressful situations, it’ll crop up as an evasion.

If the horse completely shuts down in blind panic and bolts into or thru solid objects or into dangerous situations with complete disregard for its own safety? I honestly think that is mental or some condition that effects the brain. No fix for those.

Not too long abo we had a thread on a very bad bolter over on Off Course IIRC. Cant remember much but seens to me it turned out sonething was wrong with it.

IME real bolting, not an overdramatised spook or overhorsed rider, is something very hard if not impossible to eradicate completely and it is wise not to ever trust that horse completely- certainly not with a beginner. Even for a Pro, it can scare the heck out of you and nobody likes riding one you can never let your guard down on.

[borntobewild129]

The only thing i could think of if there was something physically wrong with him would be ulcers.

If nothing was actually wrong with him which i dont think is/was the case (theres always an answer for everything!) i would probably do a single rein halt and spin him until he stops