I don’t see an existing thread on this.
Has anyone else watched this documentary, which is about Monty Roberts, his non-violent horse training methods, and his bond with Queen Elizabeth?
I’m really enjoying it. It’s on Amazon now. I didn’t realize that he had an abusive father growing up, and he also witnessed first-hand the abuse of horses in the movie industry when he was young (there are some very upsetting scenes about this). These experiences shaped his horse-training philosophy.
I’ve met the man.
Not a fan.
Oooh, do tell. Is it his training methods or personal traits you don’t like?
On the show, he gives off such a gentle vibe. It almost feels… comforting. But perhaps that is just his on-screen persona?
I guess you haven’t heard that there are two different versions of the book? The UK one is different than the NA one. Also most of his family have called BS on him.
I watched a documentary on him where he or one of his hands rode a wild mustang that had never been handled before. After he ran it down with changes of horses and I think riders for 24 hours (it’s been over 20 years since I’ve seen it). I could have gotten on that poor horse after that.
Read his autobiography “The Man Who Listens to Horses”. It has some hair-raising details of his father.
You will find a wide range of takes on Monty Roberts as a person, and on his horse training methods. Some people love him, some don’t. Suggest reading and viewing what he has put out and make your own judgment from that.
There were some incidents in his life, especially his early life, that are straight out of the old ‘wild west’ methods with horses. These days people do judge based on one thing or a few things. It is interesting to look at his full lifetime of work, though.
Whether people like him or not, Monty Roberts took the message of a new way of thinking about horse training into spaces that had never encountered it before. He seems to have been one of the very first at ‘mass-marketing’ his training methods to the public. It was very, very different than much of the common philosophy of the 90’s and before. Seeing it work out in person, as well as on video, was transformative for some of us.
I don’t know if his old horse training videos from the 80’s and 90’s are up on youtube but he did quite a few on videotape and maybe CD’s. In addition to his books.
I believe his son took over his business years ago and it is not quite the same as Monty. But other than that I know nothing about his program as it is now.
Pompous, arrogant, and egotistical to the max.
(I also read his book, then read a lengthy account by a relative of his, which debunked most of his alleged life story, and cited evidence of same.)
Yes, this is the gist of the documentary. Seeing the horrific “training” methods that (according to the documentary) were the norm pre-Monty, it is very inspiring.
It’s interesting his relatives “debunked” some of his biographical details. They may have been keen to try to rehabilitate the father’s image–he sounded like a horrible human being.
Goodness, I can’t draw any conclusions from that ranting, self-serving, anonymous website. With passages like this, methinks someone has an agenda:
“Monty Roberts smears the reputations of his dead parents and deceives the world with outrageous lies in his books and public appearances around the world. Though he claims to have been an abused and beaten child, Monty led a pampered life showing horses and was loved by two parents who did everything they could to make life easy for him. “Horse Whispers and Lies” is a book written by his own family members who call him a liar.”
That said, I know nothing about the man other than from the documentary and occasional mentions on the Horses in the Morning podcast, which is wonderful. A lot of people who end up famous or successful have some pretty big personality flaws.
I worked for the man and am not a fan.
My brother-in-law (who knows everything) rode on a plane next to him as a passenger. When BIL got off the plane BIL was an expert on all things Equus having talked to MR for hours. HAHAHA!!!
He took alot of credit for “new ideas” that were old when he heard them. When I started in horses back 1970ish out in Cali, he had an iffy reputation and took credit for other peoples theories and practices. Knew some stunt riders and film wranglers and they said stay away from him,
Recall the TV special but not when it ran, maybe on PBS. He and his crew ran that mustang near to death then “ broke” it for the cameras. He touted it as his “new” method, I turned it off, could not watch. Awful.
Remember his “invention” of the pads to help race horses settle in the gate. It does work but we found it in a horse training guide from the 1940s.
Some years later after going hunt seat living in Oh. had a barn mate, 40ish divorcée, who went to see him at an Expo event. I was a bit surprised to see him again still selling his “ method” but she went ape and turned into one of his groupies following him all over the country. Even out to that place in Solvang (which went under IIRC) …just…ewwww.
IIRC there were some issues with the law somewhere along the way, not in his favor. Not a nice person or horseman with an iffy at best reputation in the business for decades.
This 100%. Emotion … and other things …
Roberts recounted some horrific and some seriously criminal acts by his father (if true). Some of which happened while his father was in law enforcement (if true). No one wants something like that in the public space concerning their relatives, or their police department, if they can help it.
However, IMO what any lawsuit all comes down to … Someone wanted a settlement from deep pockets. That is the one fundamental reason that people sue.
Retractions and apologies resulting from lawsuit settlements aren’t always true. They happen because such statements can finalize a settlement and can help make possible future lawsuits stay away.
The cost of filing a lawsuit is usually prohibitive to sue just for personal satisfaction. The primary reason that people go forward with a lawsuit is that they feel they can get a settlement from someone who can pay.
The bigger the fuss they make about it, the better the chance of forcing a settlement, to make it go away. And force a retraction (true or not true) for the same reason.
I have no way of knowing if what Monty said about his childhood is true or not. But the lawsuit and retraction don’t tell me much. (I’m not an attorney, fwiw.)
Roberts built a small empire with his horse training, publishing and promotional activities. If not for that, if he was just another horse trainer and his autobiography had stayed small with a short run and a limited circulation, would there have been a lawsuit?
The Monty Roberts side probably realized that they didn’t have many options to win in court due to the lack of supporting documentation. Two possible reasons for ‘no records’ even if there was some truth in the stories – 1) The sinister nature of the stories were such that it was not likely that anyone kept a record of their own criminal acts; and – 2) Many small police departments just can’t afford the space (or the technology) to keep records going back that far. Plus, back in those days, small police departments tended to have haphazard record-keeping by less-educated officers, on paper, and likely in pencil (fades easily). ‘Records’ sometimes don’t preserve well.
Of course when someone’s remembered events are the subject (especially childhood memories), there may or may not be supporting material.
Not that any of that means that the stories were true or not true. Just that they could have been true but without any surviving records.
People reading any autobiography, biography or account of historic events, have to decide for themselves if they take it as true; or as close to the truth; or as the way someone perceived it. Or whatever they find the meaning to be to themselves.
All of the hooraw over the lawsuit, retracting statements, etc., just doesn’t tell me anything about anything. Other than that people were in conflict over a monetary settlement. It happens.
There is no question that Monty Roberts drew heavily from horsemen who had gone before him.
Just as was done by Martha Stewart, Dr. Phil, even some tech entrepreneurs, etc. They gather what is useful to them from what is out in the world. They add some of their own ideas as well.
It’s a business and marketing technique for selling as an expert, that works well when someone can figure out how to do it in their environment.
I’ve heard his version of his Life was invented.
But many - 35+ - years ago, when only his first book was out, on a visit to my family in SoCal, DH & I talked my Dad into driving us to Buellton, where Flag is Up farm is(was?).
His Fame was still so new we just walked onto the property, wandered around the barns (
I can still see my Dad - who rode as a young man - stroking a horse’s nose) & were heading out when we noticed a small crowd gathered.
Turned out it was Monty, patiently answering questions, until a ranch hand called him away
“Mrs says lunch is ready”
Whether or not that was a BS excuse, he came across as personable.
Where he went from there as a clinician/rockstar 🤷
One of the things I find most offensive wrt Monty and others of his ilk is the assumption that everyone was using bruticaine as their primary/only training methodology before they burst on the scene.
It just ain’t so.
There have always been horsemen.
They just didn’t have a PR firm.
I was searching for an image or video demonstrating how people used to train horses to load in trailers. I can’t find one. They don’t exist any more. I used to be able to find a dozen, easily.
Roberts is not the only person who introduced a new mindset – he probably hasn’t reached as many people as some other, later trainers. But he was one who was first able to go into geographic and cultural places that had never seen this before. He created leaders out of others in a new way of approaching horse training.
It’s not a new wave any more. Now this other approach (mostly without ‘join-up’) is the way things are done. Not because people are all emo these days. But because it is easier on humans as well as horses. Faster, more permanent.
When I was young and learning about horses, the way to get a horse into a trailer for the first time was using force. Not necessarily ‘bruticaine’ (whatever that is), but you needed 5 or 6 very strong people. Straps around their butt and leading through the trailer front to pull them in. Some cowboys who would link arms under the horse’s girth to lift their front end. More of us to link arms under their back end and lift the back. I was good at the back end. I was good at coordinating the whole thing and getting results. As humanely as possible, given the mindset at the time.
The horse was leaning back, terrified. Honestly we didn’t have draft horses and I don’t know how it would have worked with them - several of us were already lifting about 1k lbs of horse weight, a body part at a time.
A good method to keep the horse from rearing at the door and clocking their head on the top of the trailer, was a surcingle around the belly and a rope tied through the halter and under the belly. If they tried to rear, the rope would prevent it by keeping their head down. That was ‘humane’ at the time. This saved horse head injuries that could occur in spite of a head bumper.
More people were there ready to slam the doors shut the instant the horse was in. Then – leave! drive away!
It was arduous and took any amount of time. It was done over and over until, very, very gradually, the horse would capitulate when they saw the crowd forming behind them.
The horse was never willing. They were compelled. But – we didn’t use the whips that some used, so this was the humane way. Eventually a horse just figured it was easier to get in. I was one of the few that had treats ready for a loaded horse. Most got nothing in exchange for compliance – except no more pressure.
We didn’t know another way. We thought no horse was ever going to volunteer to walk quietly onto a trailer. We got it done. We had a motto: No horse left behind.
Somehow I ran across the Monty Roberts book, then watched a few videos. Then he came to town with his traveling clinic - early 2000’s. I registered for a demo night when he was going to load a horse onto a trailer for the first time. I went alone because everyone else I knew, who had barely heard of him, thought it was bullsh!7.
You could tell the people in the audience (not the VIPs at the foot of the round pen) who were already sold on the MR method. You could tell those that they had DRAGGED TO THE CLINIC ALONG WITH THEM. The believers were smiling and leaning forward in their seats - mostly women dressed in denims and turqouise. The REST were grumpy, leaning back, arms folded recalcitrantly over their chests - mostly old ranchers who were there to keep peace with their wives. They would have rather have been anywhere else. In the non-VIP audience it was about 50-50, from my POV.
Robert’s subject was a 4 yo TB mare, raised on range pasture, only lightly handled, mostly feral. Mare was about 16h, well made and muscular. Not buying anything Roberts was selling. Owner validated that she had never met Roberts before, doing this for the clinic organizer – etc.
Mare’s owners and hands had roughly gotten her to the clinic, her one & only trailer experience and it wasn’t a good one. Mare was ‘hell no’ on the open-backed trailer that was locked into the round pen.
The mare, not her owner, was the one who proved out her feral-ness with her wide-eyed non-acceptance of Roberts and her intransigent avoidance of both him and the open trailer. From her body language, I was sure this would be Roberts’ only failure of the year. It was suspenseful.
It took about 45 minutes for Roberts to work through his process. He explained everything he was doing and why. And how the horse was reacting. Many steps. As he got her closer to the open trailer, she was resistant. As she was close but not quite getting on, he did use fence panels (managed by helpers) to close out her options. But by then she was no longer resisting much.
Not one rope. Nothing attached to the horse. She just clambered in, at first carefully. At her own speed.
By the end, the mare wasn’t just going onti the trailer without being led (without fence panels) and staying in place until invited to leave. She was going on, staying on, coming off, going back in, all at light suggestions from him. There were no ropes or straps. No pushing. No dragging by the halter. Nothing from behind, at all.
The mare had transformed into confidence, unafraid, and willing.
It was emotional for everyone in that crowd who had no idea that all a horse wanted was to understand, and they would do this willingly. That long ago, so many ‘horse people’ had never seen that before.
No kidding, there were tears falling throughout this largely hard-bitten crowd. I saw arms uncrossing and body language completely changed – as happened with the mare as well. Just to learn that it didn’t have to be so hard. It didn’t have to be so rough, so dangerous. Approached in a totally different way, the horse would come on side to cooperate – and it didn’t take that much time to achieve it.
That was the new wave that Monty Roberts brought to horsemanship as it existed at the time. Today, search for videos on teaching trailer loading, and you will see several methods, but none of them are what used to be common in the early 2000’s and for decades before.
Roberts had a message for a certain time. Does it resonate now? Probably not in the same way. Because the message has already saturated into the human population, it isn’t a new idea.
Horsemanship has continued to move forward. But one of the reasons that is even possible is that Roberts, and (at the time) a few like him, kicked open some doors that had been locked shut for decades, even centuries. Among common horse folk, not just the elites who could afford help from professional horse whisperers.
Roberts opened the door to change my way of thinking about horses. I have never done join-up. I do understand and contemplate the mind of a horse very differently than from an earlier era. And it started with Monty Roberts. I was not aware of any others, at the time – this was before so many of the nationally-based ‘horse gurus’ that came up in Roberts’ wake.
Roberts also said that he was not a “horse whisperer”. He listened to horses, rather than dictating to them. An interesting take.
All the stuff about Roberts claiming credit, where ideas came from, self-promoting, etc. and on and on – honestly, from where I first came from, it can all be true – and it comes across as nit-picky and even jealous of someone who came from nothing and built an empire. What difference does it make, it’s small-minded. OK, fine, give it all as true – and honestly it is nothing compared to the big picture of the change that Roberts helped initiate in some previously unforgiving places.
No one is perfect. Especially people who are successful at achievement and outreach. (G-You would hate most Olympic gold medalists if you knew them personally.) But for some reason, some people think that human perfection (in others!) is their entitled right.
It is his marketing and outreach that mattered to people and especially horses. Not the dumb details such as which human gets the “credit” that no one remembers, anyway. Compared with the actual effect on a hugely broad population of horses who are escaping the abuse that their ancestors endured at the hands of horse trainers who didn’t know anything else.
Roberts opened many of those doors, in the US and in places in Europe, precisely through his relentless drive to change the world – for horses.
We were quietly teaching horses to load in the 1960’s. Maybe it was a regional thing.
He’s slimy and arrogant.
Well, if even half of what Monty says about his father is accurate, we would expect him to be a rather damaged individual.
I know the family claims it is all lies, but it’s hard to believe someone would make that up out of whole cloth. Maybe the family told themselves it was all just “normal” corporal punishment.
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