The idea that there is a drug on the market that will make a lame horse sound that is not testable is PETA fodder that is not based in reality. No such thing exists, if it did there would be no lame horses.
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Iām sorry, but I have to disagree. Whether competing at the greatest level, whether it is in racing, the Olympic Games, dressage, showjumping, evening, or even just a backyard competition, āsoundnessā is always the same. If a horse winces in discomfort or exhibits physical signs that they are uncomfortable, in pain, and or unable to accomplish a task to be asked, they are not healthy or sound enough to be asked to do so, they are unsound and forced to do something to accommodate us.
When horses break down on the racetrack we always hear the rider state that the horseā took a bad step.ā I wouldnāt be surprised if the horse ātook a bad stepā because he or she was trying to relieve pain in an off leg or back and ended up overburdening that leg or the supporting. It does not take much to ātake a bad step,ā just put too m weight on a leg or pressure on and something in that leg is going to break, lor tear in the horses leg. Rupture
An unsound horse is going to try to compensate for pain in his leg. Sometimes they can do it other times they break down. I really think Forete lucked out this t time. I recall Todd Pletcher stated in an interview that it wasnāt for the horse to be 100% to race. To me that is scary though, that is not only putting your horse at risk but every other horse and rider at risk on the track at the same time. All you need is for your horse to break down, and those behind to flip over that horse and fall on top of the jockey.
Maybe trainers of horses that breakdown should be help legally liable for any injuries or death associated with reckless endangerment of others in the race. I know racing is a dangerous sport, but that does trainer/owner one right to enter a unsound horse in a race. We have the science to demonstrate current/progressive unsoundness in the horse, perhaps we need a good lawsuit.
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Sure there is.
FDA-approved drug that has had New Animal Drug Applications to FDA"s Center for Veterinary Medicine are not the only drugs that may have pain control. It is just that the latter are the only products that may be legally marketed for equine pain control in the United States following approval of the drug. Drug approval is based on the FDAās review of data from controlled investigational studies that demonstrate the productās effectiveness.
There is the off-label use of pain-control drug products that have not yet been approved for use in horse products, compounding of some unapproved drug products, and the use of homeopathic products with alleged pain-control functions. I have no doubt that there are individuals who use these unapproved new drugs while circumventing the law. I believe the trainer of Maximum Security got caught up by the FDA for using unapproved drug products.
Thank goodness for the vet. I am glad that CD has implemented this program. It is NOT progress when it takes the state vet to prevent a potential breakdown/accident. The trainer saw the same thing as the vet. Why didnāt he withdraw his horse?
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penelope, the problem is that you donāt know what you donāt know. The idea that Todd Pletcher would be using off-label, homeopathic painkillers on his horses is ludicrous. And if he was using some kind of stealth-miracle-drug, why didnāt Forte jog sound for the vet? Wouldnāt that be the point of using it?
Your argument is based on the premise that when racehorses are drug tested, the lab runs hundreds of individual tests for the hundreds of banned substances. They donāt. They approach it from the other direction: hereās the blood, whatās in it? Any unapproved substance thatās found is automatically suspect. They donāt ignore off-label drugs, or substances of homeopathic origin, or compounded products. They look at everything and want to know why itās there. Thatās what makes the system work.
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Please point me to the place where Pletcher said he knew his horse was unsound but he planned to run him anyway.
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This is the racing forum, and many of the poster[s] on this thread have real life experience with race horses, owned and trained their own, worked on the backside as grooms or exercise riders and loved them as if they were their own ā coming into this thread with guns blazing about how awful the racing industry is is like the equivalent of being invited into someoneās house and shitting all over their decor.
I wouldnāt normally comment, but Iāve seen a trend now with your posts over several topics, not all related to racing. Keep in mind that in racing not a single owner, trainer, or exercise rider wants to see horses break down. We all have a lot of scientific and medical progress to thank racing for ā from novel surgeries to save horses from colic or c-spine issues, to studies on bone density, exercising, and stallion longevity. It is not all evil and bad, and TPTB do a hell of a lot to prevent crises like this from occurring.
One thing to consider is that racing employs horses and people - we as equestrians will all be in grave trouble the day PETA and anti-racing fans shut down racing for good. If you want to keep riding horses, you better find ways to educate Joe-Public about what positives racing brings to the equestrian world, because it will be us next.
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I donāt think itās what he said- it was what he didnāt. Laurierace knew that there was something in the wind on this horse, and she was right. When Pletcher was questioned the day before, he said that the horse was fine. So, are we saying that Pletcher had not seen anything at all that others might have? Or, are we saying that he was covering his assets? It gives the public the ability to say, well, he either canāt see anything, or he was unwilling to admit that he did see something. Not great for the credibility of the industry given the weekās tragedies.
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Bullshit.
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He indicates that Forte was unsound as of Thursday, May 4, 2023 with the hoof bruise. He is the trainer; he said it, so he must have known it. It is on the Bloodhorse.com. On May 6, 2023, he indicated that the vet found that Forteās condition had improved, but he was still off; hence he knew the horse was off. Derby morning, Go back to Bloodhorse. com. Your words, not mine, but go to the Paulik Report from May 6, 2023 to see what he said about them making a big deal about racing a horse that was not 100%. Did Todd want to wait until Fortew was checked by t\he state vet first before creating him? Possibly. I am boir ab expect here, but O would think that a professional would not to have a record of a state vet needing to pull your horse from a are due to ubsoun dness. Foir those that care it does not look good on paper/
Todd Pletcher reported that Forte was discovered to be lame on Thursday, May 4, 20ā23 (see Bloodhorse.com). On Friday, May 5, 2023, he indicated in Bloodhoorse.com that Forter was sound prepared to race; Todd Plecterindicated on May 6, 2023, that the state veterinarian deemed Forte unsound.
No one here on this site who works with Todd Pletcher knows his objectives or was at CD when all of this happened. ; We only know what he shared with the media. The information he provides contradicts the information he shares. He contradicts himself badly. Do I think his potential actions/ were n the horseās best interest? Of course not, but that is just my opinion. Because he fai;s top provide\s accurate information, its interpretation is open to anything. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Goi for it ā¦
We are talking about an investment of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars as well as the blood, sweat, tears and dreams of an entire team of people in this ONE event. ONE chance.
If my horse has a stone bruise amd not acutely lame I am 100% going to jog him that morning and hope for the best.
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I would, too, and I would pray on it when having an upcoming competition and a horse that might be feeling achy from his arthritis.
Bu Todd Plet6cheer knew Forte was lame or unsound as \of Wednesday, May 3,d, 2023 ( see below) and provided a misleading statement to the media on May 5, 2023, on the health status of Forte. Why wouldnāt a trainer dope up an unsound horse to race if they are willing to lie about its health status to the public? Which is wrong because it misrepresents.the condition of the horse to gamblers hoping for a financial benefit from a wager, including this animal.
Conversely, what Tood Plether actually believed Forte, while still lame on May 5, 2023, was sound enough to race??? His statements were actually, and he really planned to race F orte the horse based on his condition of May 5, 2023/. Unless the condition of Forte worsened overnight, it appears that he was going to run a unsound horse in teh Derby. We will never know what wasā¦
Derby Favorite Forte Scratched By State Veterinarians After Morning Gallop by Paulick Report Staff|05.06.2023|9:14am
Kentucky Derby morning line favorite Forte is out of the race, according to multiple media outlets on the ground at Churchill Downs, following an examination by state veterinarians Saturday morning.e groud at Churchill Downs, following an examination by state veterinarians Saturday morning.
The Todd Pletcher trainee galloped at around 7:45 a.m. and was seen by state veterinarians afterward. Dr. Nick Smith watched the horse jog multiple times and consulted with Pletcher and co-owner Mike Repole before the decision was made to scratch the horse. Repole told the Churchill Downs media office that state vets had concerns about a bruise in Forteās right front foot.
Rumors had swirled for the past several days on social media about Forteās status, but Pletcher told the Louisville Courier-Journal on Friday that the colt seemed fine and plans were full steam ahead.
āWednesday he developed a (hoof) bruise, but bruises can heal in 24 hours or bruises can heal in a week,ā Repole told FanDuel/TVGās Caton Bredar (see interview below). āWatching Todd and his staff just handle this with tremendous grace, notify the vet; we did X-rays, we brought in Dr. Allday, Dr. Bramlage, Dr. Johnson. The state vets came in and they watched him every single day. They appreciated the collaboration ā¦ itās just that you can only be a 3-year-old colt on the first Saturday in May one time in your life.ā
Repole said the Violence colt could be ready for the Preakness if they chose to take that path. āI think me and Todd are going to need more recovery than him,ā he said.
With the defection, the Derby field is now reduced to 18. Skinner was scratched on Friday due to an elevated temperature.
Forte came to the race from a gutsy win in the Grade 1 Florida Derby, which had followed an impressive performance in the G2 Fountain of Youth and before that, the Breedersā Cup Juvenile. He as won six of his seven lifetime starts.
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Me too, and if we are not 100% \sound we are not competing.
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Can you tell me how this works? This isnāt how show horses are tested and I honestly and maybe naively thought testing like that wasnāt possible.
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It sounds like human drug testing. Run a test for prohibited drugs and if it pops, begin testing each sample separately. With humans they combine the samples leaving enough to run individual tests. If it comes back clean cool. If not they they begin to test each one individually. It is more cost effective than running each sample separately.
This kind of article, and that photograph are not good for the optics of the sport.
This is not real world applicable. Sound is a really wide term. Basically, 99% of riding horses are serviceably sound. Sound enough to perform some job. I donāt think any really are 100% sound. Most of what you see at the average level of horse care/riding/ownership the horse is mildly to moderately unsound. At the highest levels of sport (any sport) the horse is maintained to its own ultimate soundness level, which is both particular to that animal as far as what that level might be, and basically completely out of reach for the average person/horse. That doesnāt mean they would pass a prepurchase, that means their particular issues are maintained to keep them competitive at the top level within the requirements of their sport. When that is no longer possible they retire or move to a lower level where they donāt have to maintain their former level of soundness. Sometimes itās not possible for a particular competition but generally possible, but the problems arise when itās just occasionally possible for that horse and people keep going, in my opinion.
And, for what itās worth, reading on the surface level, since Iām not a racing insider although Iām a racing supporter, I didnāt think this particular situation was handled well, so Iām not defending anyone.
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I am not any kind of scientist so I really donāt know the answer to that. However, I do breed and race Thoroughbreds. Several years ago, I needed to pick up a split sample from a track so it could be sent to a lab for additional testing. I was talking to the person who was in charge of keeping the samples under lock and key and he was the one who offered that explanation of how it was done. The idea is that there are always new drugs/chemicals coming along that need to be foundāeven if no one knows to test for them specifically.
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To Laurieās point occasionally they will have a test come back as what they call ācloudy.ā Cloudy means that they found something but they donāt know what it is. They can hold up a purse indefinitely while they attempt to figure out what that something is.
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