Okay, I know how to feed a horse to within an inch of it’s competitive life
What about dog nutrition? How protein, calories etc. what is biocompatible, and available for use by the dog? Not really needing brand names but just the basics on dog nutrition. For two adult dogs who do agility and run on a daily basis.
Research dogfoodadvisor.com, home cooking, and raw feeding broken into different and passionate parties like prey model raw and BARF. Then post back your thoughts.
squinches eyes shut
I almost never comment on food threads. They get so heated. But here’s my take.
Most Purina foods are pretty good, they are developed by Veterinary Nutritionists. My dogs do well on them. Even the ones that have corn in them. smiles apologetically.
Mike Sagman is a dentist. A human dentist. I’m sure he’s a smart man, but dogs and cats aren’t humans, which means they can react badly to many things you might consider harmless.
Things that people eat are not always compatible with dogs. Some things will kill dogs. Like avacodos. Or grapes/raisins. Or xylitol.
so for a vote to commerical dog food, might read this post.
http://mmendingwall.blogspot.com/2014/02/10-things-i-want-my-clients-to-know.html
and now I’ll go back to something else
[QUOTE=threedogpack;7504205]
squinches eyes shut
I almost never comment on food threads. They get so heated. But here’s my take.
Most Purina foods are pretty good, they are developed by Veterinary Nutritionists. My dogs do well on them. Even the ones that have corn in them. smiles apologetically.
Mike Sagman is a dentist. A human dentist. I’m sure he’s a smart man, but dogs and cats aren’t humans, which means they can react badly to many things you might consider harmless.
Things that people eat are not always compatible with dogs. Some things will kill dogs. Like avacodos. Or grapes/raisins. Or xylitol.
so for a vote to commerical dog food, might read this post.
http://mmendingwall.blogspot.com/2014/02/10-things-i-want-my-clients-to-know.html
and now I’ll go back to something else[/QUOTE]
Loved the article. Thanks for posting it. I feed Purina as well and am very happy with it. This is all within the last two years though after being a huge dog food snob for 10 years. I have an allergenic golden and had to finally realize that I had to feed what was best for him…not what I felt was best.
OP my suggestion is to find a brand you are comfortable with in your price range and try it.
With really active dogs I would personally look at a performance type food. For the average dog I would look at a maintenance. For my breeds I do like around a 16% fat and 26% protein. (3 seniors–a jrt, golden and a labx) and they are average activity. Also don’t discount a puppy formula even for adult dogs as the protein/ fat can sometimes be a bit better than an adult formula.
I am by no means a nutrition expert, so I will dust give my experience. Both of my Great Danes eat Taste of the Wild and do great on it.
Dogs may not HAVE to eat grain free, but I will tell you that I notice a huge difference in the health of my dogs’ coats, teeth, etc. in comparison to that of my family dog who ate Purina/Iams/Science Diet/etc. feeds.
Not to mention they have (sorry if this is TMI) regular, hard poops that easily degrade if I don’t pick them up. That tells me that they are getting a lot of nutrition out of their food. And let me tell you - after picking up after my family dog for the better part of ten years, there’s quite a difference.
Want to know about what dogs need without getting brands involved? Well, dogs are carnivores. If you wouldn’t feed vegetables, grains, fruits to a snake, same idea with dogs. Sure they may eat it, but they will eat chocolate too. Dogs don’t always know what is best for them. This is where you come in. Knowing that they are carnivores that cannot break down plant structures since they lake the enzymes to do so, they thrive on a raw meat diet, as do cats. Those little pebbles Purina makes? In response to the Purina posters yeah… Purina is not so good. Check out their Purina Beneful- sugar is among the ingredients, which dogs cannot metabolise like us. They also put very little meat. Purina foods aren’t made for carnivores, they are made as cheap as possible with lots of advertising to make a buck, not make a healthy dog. Some people live to be 100 drinking whiskey and smoking, but we all know that is not the basis of a healthy living, some are just lucky.
One more thought here. Dogs aren’t actually carnivores, they are omnivores which means IF they were out being all feral and such, they would scavenge as much, or more, than hunt. JHein12 and most on this forum (including myself), are in all probability, not Veterinary Nutritionists so that should be taken into account as well. Most big dog food companies spend thousands of dollars each year on research and development and employ scientists. There is something worthwhile there.
Dogs are a hardy species mostly, so they will probably handle whatever you decide to feed them, but it might not be optimal and from the OP, it seems like s/he wants to understand how to feed this dog well.
trots off to find a less contentious subject
You should feed what works for your dogs. That being said, I would research the foods - Whole Dog Journal does a review of foods every year, and decide what you want to feed based on your dog’s activity, and your budget.
My dog does agility - hard core agility - we compete a lot and we train a lot and he gets Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. It works for him - keeps him at his ideal weight and he loves it. Costs me a fortune, but I don’t care. 
[QUOTE=threedogpack;7504205]
squinches eyes shut
I almost never comment on food threads. They get so heated. But here’s my take. …[/QUOTE]
Threedog, I’m worried about you! Do you need medical treatment? Skin grafts? Because you forgot to zip your flame suit. :lol:
How is he relevant? I missed something.
This is something you can’t learn from forum.
Lots of feeding articles and info on these sites, just for starters:
www.dogaware.com
b-naturals.com
healthypets.mercola.com (Dr. Karen Becker)
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7504669]
Threedog, I’m worried about you! Do you need medical treatment? Skin grafts? Because you forgot to zip your flame suit. :lol:
How is he relevant? I missed something.[/QUOTE]
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/about/
"Welcome! My name is Mike Sagman. And as the editor and creator of this website, I believe it’s important for you to know a little about my background.
Mike Sagman, D.D.S.I’m a graduate of the Medical College of Virginia with a doctoral degree in dental surgery.
My college curriculum included a major in chemistry and a minor in biology.
Yet none of my education or my more than 30 years practicing dental medicine should be considered a qualification for publishing The Dog Food Advisor."
as I stated earlier, human medicine and dog medicine are very different. Things that people can safely use cannot be used in animals or are used for different purposes or perhaps different dosages. In other words, dogs are not people and you cannot apply nutritional or medical formulas and products across the board.
I have used ProPlan for decades, Taste of the Wild for Years and Wellness for a year. I currently have one dog who just isn’t doing well on the kibble. I had another before, but it still wasn’t enough to get me to look at the p.i.t.a. that is the BARF (what a bad name) diet. This one gets struvite crystals (his urine ph gets really high) and is prone to bladder infections.
The vet prescribed a food that would cost me $70/week to feed him. Not only is it incredibly expensive, but it has 100 less calories per cup than what he barely keeps weight on now and the first two ingredients are grain. 14% protein and 12% fat vs. the 30/20+ he is currently getting. I’m sure some chemical is what is lowering the PH. Anyway, when I asked if there was another way, as I think he will starve on this crap, I got pushback and was made to feel like a horrible person for wanting a better food for my working dog (“well it’s what I would feed my dog.”) So, I did a bunch of research (I’m open to more) and I started making my own food to lower ph and not only is it working, but it is actually working too well, so I’m back to the drawing board on that one, but in the meantime he isn’t starving. Here is a book on the BARF diet: http://www.amazon.com/Give-Your-Dog-Bone-Commonsense/dp/0646160281
My point is, I think for most dogs out there kibble is probably fine. I like the Wellness after I had some quality control issues with TOTW (I really like their ingredients, but quit after I got two bad bags). But now I find myself embarking on the raw food diet journey that I have avoided for years. sigh I will still feed the other dog Wellness.
I think price point is a good place to start. I think dogs can live long happy lives on Purina dog chow from day one. I think that dogs can live long happy lives on Fromm’s.
When I worked at a feed store and got a very nice discount, I fed my dogs TOTW, Wellness Core and Blue Wilderness and life was good. When husband’s boss died and he became unemployed and we were broke, I fed my dogs Ol Roy high protein and as far as the dogs were concerned, life was still good.
The only difference I could tell in my five dogs between one or the other was that one of them shed more on the cheaper food and they weren’t as shiny. I started adding a bloop of olive oil or fish oil to their treats or food and they were right back to the same.
I have everything from a geriatric, a working Great Pyrenees, odds/ends and a chi. They did fine on any food. No sensitive stomachs allowed here-they wouldn’t last long.
Way I see it, it’s a question of quality and what you’re comfortable with. I do stay away from corn as the first ingredient if I can since I am a fan of as high of protein as possible and will add eggs to up it if I have to. Hence the Ol Roy high protein formula which I can’t believe I’m even admitting that! As soon as I get another feed store job they can go back on the good stuff. Just like us-we haven’t been having a lot of caviar and champagne lately either!
I think I feel faint.
I haven’t been flamed,roasted or put on a spit! AND I’ve gotten support for commercial kibble.
has this ever happened in the history of The Menagerie on COTH?
:lol:
Give it time!
I have fed everything from TOTW to Sam’s dog food to my dogs of the past ten years. They seem to do best on a name brand food, Purina being one, with some grains. The wee ones have settled on Iams Healthy Weight (some of the older females are portly piglets and need less calories). For treats I give carrots (cooked) or green beans straight out of the can, and occasionally I will get a rotisserie chicken and pick the meat off, baggie it in little pieces, and have treats for a week…Just an FYI: one of my chis had a terrible histamine reaction to lamb dog food, which I have since read is common. I’d pass on that one.
Some people live to 100 on a pack a day and a bottle of wine. Most people make it to the average life expectancy eating an eating diet with some junk mixed in. Some people have bodies that cannot tolerate overly processed food, high fats, high carb, etc. and do best on a very tailored diet.
I firmly believe dogs are the same way. Some dogs can thrive for 16 years on alpo and others will succumb to cancer by age 5 despite the best diet possible.
I’ve found that my boy isn’t really grain sensitive but he doesn’t do well with poultry or fish. He would be happier on a beef based corn heavy food as opposed to a top of the line grain-free food based on chicken or turkey.
[QUOTE=cowboymom;7505006]
Way I see it, it’s a question of quality and what you’re comfortable with. I do stay away from corn as the first ingredient if I can since I am a fan of as high of protein as possible and will add eggs to up it if I have to. Hence the Ol Roy high protein formula which I can’t believe I’m even admitting that! As soon as I get another feed store job they can go back on the good stuff. Just like us-we haven’t been having a lot of caviar and champagne lately either![/QUOTE]
I agree. Good post.
FWIW I feed Eukanuba Excel Lamb and Rice. My dogs have eaten Euk forever, but I did try Wellness and it wasn’t a good food for my guys. And, I can buy it wholesale at dog shows if I go, which is another benefit.
I have tried most of the “good to premium” brands out there and the only thing I have found that my dogs will eat WITHOUT having to mix in can food is Purina ProPlan Savor (the one with pieces of dry meat in it). Every thing else they would turn up their nose at plain kibble. So Pro Plan it is. Only question I have now is I have a little puppy (6 mos but only 9 lbs) he eats like five bites at a meal and he is DONE. What is better for a pup like that dry kibble or wet food?
[QUOTE=threedogpack;7504589]
One more thought here. Dogs aren’t actually carnivores, they are omnivores which means IF they were out being all feral and such, they would scavenge as much, or more, than hunt. JHein12 and most on this forum (including myself), are in all probability, not Veterinary Nutritionists so that should be taken into account as well. Most big dog food companies spend thousands of dollars each year on research and development and employ scientists. There is something worthwhile there.
Dogs are a hardy species mostly, so they will probably handle whatever you decide to feed them, but it might not be optimal and from the OP, it seems like s/he wants to understand how to feed this dog well.
trots off to find a less contentious subject[/QUOTE]
Wild dogs do hunt in packs. What about their biology says that they are omnivores?
