The Famous Saddle fit question but from a fitting the riders perspective

[cswoodlandfairy]

So a fun discussion topic: Saddle fit for human

So I have been struggling with lower leg issues for a while, keeping it in place over fences. I’ve spent the winter working to fix it and everything I’ve tried has help marginally but it’s still an issue. Additionally, I move a lot in my saddle. I have to constantly readjust myself in the saddle to get re-centered.

My young horse is moving up and as he does he’s starting to tap into his scope which in turn pops me out of the tack. Not only that but with a terrible lower leg I’m accidently kicking him on the landing side to which his reaction is to buck, fart, and bolt galloping off. The saddle has been recently updated through the panels to fit him.

So in frustration I ask my trainer what gives cause it ain’t lack of trying. And she said it’s my saddle. It’s too short and narrow in the flap for my legs. Because of this I pinch with my knee and my leg goes for it’s own adventure.

Well great, we all know what that means…

Except my current saddle is a custom saddle that’s less than 5 years old. And of course when I got this saddle they always ask how it feels, etc. but at the end of the day I don’t know how it shouldn’t and should feel other than comfort, if that makes sense. We won’t get into that my trainer (different than current) at the time was less than helpful and just happy I supported her sponsor.

So here we are today with I don’t know what. So how exactly should a saddle fit with length, width, seat width? I get seat size and tree size part. She wants me to meet with a CWD rep, but I’ve heard cwd is not the best for TBs? Though my TB does not have the typically sharfin withers. My current one is a Voltaire and I should be able to get a decent trade in or sell it as it’s in great shape.

But does anyone here know saddle fit for more the human than the horse? I need more education because if I am doing this again I want it to last years upon years…

[Against_All_Odds2]

This may sound strange but…Can you try riding in it without the massive half pads and re-evaluate before buying another custom saddle?

To me the flap looks fine. I’d suggest perhaps you might like bigger blocks above your knee up front.

[Redlei44]

@cswoodlandfairy

So in frustration I ask my trainer what gives cause it ain’t lack of trying. And she said it’s my saddle. It’s too short and narrow in the flap for my legs. Because of this I pinch with my knee and my leg goes for it’s own adventure.

Maybe. It’s worth getting some saddle fitter opinions for sure. IME trainers are not, as a group, educated about saddle fit beyond the basics. And brand reps vary greatly. Can you post additional pictures from the side? It’s hard to see your leg. The flap certainly doesn’t look big for you but your knee isn’t hanging over the flap or anything.

Sample size of one, I know, but I have struggled with lower leg stability when the balance of the saddle is not right (tilted to front or back) much more than when the flap is too big or too small.

[cswoodlandfairy]

Hey @Redlei44!

So the photo with the halfpad is 2 years old, but sadly the only one I have thats from the side. I no longer use a halfpad with the saddle since the panels have been changed to fit him. Below is a more recent photo over fences without it, but I dont have one standing.

As for my leg, Ive done no stirrup work, gymnastics over fences (lower) to focus on my leg, two point on flat and fences. My leg is strong enough that even the slight squeeze is much for my guy, haha.

[silver_charm]

Do you have an independent saddle fitter who sells saddles? Or can you ask the CWD rep to bring some of their trade ins from other brands?

For me it was just sitting in a bunch until I got my ah ha moments. Our CWD rep brought out everything she had in my size, so I tried at least three different brands and a couple seat/flap configurations. I had been riding in a childeric that was too loose for me, and I didn’t realize how much I was slipping around in it until I sat in The One. It was like I instantly centered and everyone on the ground could see the stability change immediately.

One friend has CWDs for most of her thoroughbreds and says they move really well in them. None of them are beast wither creatures but she also has a good rep who’s really honest about what fits and is willing to help her if she has issues with new saddles coming out weird.

[IPEsq]

I don’t think the size is bad but something in the balance must be off where you aren’t sitting in the correct balance point of the saddle. You are also in a little bit of a chair seat and appear to have conformation where you might need a saddle set up with a straighter flap (and learn to have your thigh longer).

Based on these issues, I doubt CWD would be an improvement. I might try a Butet or Childeric since you say he doesn’t have sharkfin withers. Or if you like a cushier feel, maybe a PJ?

Which model Voltaire is this? Have you sat in the flat seat model? Assuming your horse is liking it, maybe I would start there and see if you can do a trade in with your rep.

[cswoodlandfairy]

I definitely plan to! The other thing, because I’m am obsessively researching this before I spend more money, is the seat it self. When I sat in my Trainers CWD I felt seated and secure and just found out its a deep seat. My Voltaire is a Palm Beach which is a half seat whereas the Suttgart is a deep seat, but this saddle wasnt around when I got mine. Id be willing to be my biggest issue is the seat itself which effects the rest. I need to sit and wrap my legs around my horses, that is the ride they need, but when I sit in my saddle I slide all over so not only am I trying to focus on my legs I have to adjust my seat constantly. Many times I half seat to a jump and readjust and sit 2 strides out, which Im fairly confident shouldnt be happening.

Ive reached out to a Voltaire Saddle rep, again my trainer doesnt care so much on brand but fit, the problem is I dont trust the rep in my area ( I reached out to one in another zone that has helped me before hoping he would come down). So if I am forced to use the rep in my area I will be looking at other brands.

[Posting_Trot]

Smith-Worthington saddlery has a fit guide for the rider:

Smith-Worthington saddle fit for the rider

It’s definitely worth looking at even if you are looking for a different make of saddle.

[Scribbler]

Have you ridden at this height on another saddle/horse combo? Did that fix your problems?

Also how is your core and back strength? It doesn’t all come from a strong leg.

[Renn_aissance]

Smith-Worthington’s guide is great.

OP, you look like you and I might be built alike. Athletic build (so, pretty muscular in the seat and thighs,) and a long femur and calf in comparison to the length of the torso.

When I look at you in your saddle- particularly the pic of you trotting in the indoor- I see that the top of your thigh is pressed up against the knee block and that your heel is forward of your hip joint. Your seat is in the back of the saddle and it doesn’t look like that’s on purpose because you’re back of the working center. I want to see you move your seat bones forward in the saddle and open your hip angle by rocking your pelvis underneath of you, but I don’t think you can actually do that in this saddle because the front of your pelvis is going to slam up against the pommel. To send your hip back, your leg comes forward. Then, when you jump, your hip comes forward, your leg comes back.

That makes me think that you may want to go up half an inch in seat size (maybe more, if you go with a deeper seat- that’s your preference) and a more forward flap. You may also prefer a saddle that has a different cut to its forwardness. For instance, my Devoucoux has a 3AAB flap- that’s added length (3), double forward (AA), and the position of the most forward part of the saddle is lower down on the flap than the regular forward cut (B), which better accommodates my long femur. Twist width also plays a role in where your leg falls on the horse. If you have tight hip flexors or narrow hips, and a wider twist, you may have difficulty orienting your leg around the horse because your hips may not be meant to turn outwards the way the twist wants them to. Etc.

So - yeah, go ride in a bunch. Don’t be afraid to go up a seat size either- size and depth are correlated so as you change twist width and length of working center, that changes where your seat goes in the saddle. But, if your behind is “of the French persuasion” as mvp so nicely puts it, you should know that most reps do not just carry around double forward or modified flaps in the back of the truck. Call and ask first.

[hillary_again]

Great advice here. The placing of the most-forward part of the flap is an element that does not get enough attention, IMHO. I agree that you appear to need a bigger seat. I think you may have a flap that is too forward for you - a straighter flap, so that you can still be in the pocket at the knee, but have your leg under you more. Hey, horse stuff: two people, three opinions ;)…
Smith-Worthington told me that it’s harder to fit the rider than the horse!

[Pally]

I know they work for some people, but I’ve really struggled with the Voltaire’s I’ve ridden in (not sure which model, sorry). Something feels very imbalanced in the seat for me. While the flaps likely weren’t the configuration I would choose for me, I’ve ridden in plenty of saddles where the flap was too small or not forward enough for me, and it’s a totally different (and less annoying) feeling.

[Moneypitt]

To me; it looks like you could use more saddle flap around and in front of your knee area. Maybe an inch or so?

I don’t know about CWD or Voltaire but in Antares a ‘B’ after an A or N flap denotation means more room around the knee area.

Good luck with your search.

[TheDBYC]

Something is causing your toes to turn way out, which usually means your hip is over-rotated externally. I agree the seat probably needs to be a little bigger & the flap longer & more forward set. Also, what’s the twist like on that saddle? Might need a different width there so your leg can drape more easily.

[JFF]

I will go a different route here and suggest that before you drop a few grand on a new saddle, you consider doing some additional exercises to further build up your core and back strength. It’s always tough to tell from photos, but from the few you posted, it looks like you already work to keep yourself fit and strong, so good on ya! Based on my own experience, strengthening my core and back has been the single most important factor in improving my leg position and stability in the saddle. And the best part is that leg lifts, sit ups, crunches, and russian twists are a few of the only things about horseback riding that won’t cost you a penny. Anyway, for my two cents, I’d suggest you spend 8 weeks or so giving this a try, then reassess your leg position and how your saddle fits before purchasing anything.