The source is most important. Your vet that has seen your horse would be the first source for a feed recommendation, and probably has no skin in the game wrt brands. Check published studies and read journal articles. They don’t care about brands either.
A brand rep is going to sell their brand (duh). If you question the brand rep’s recommendation, run it by your vet. If some anonymous internet poster told you that the NSC value of a particular feed is the most important factor (NOT overall NSC wrt diet balance) then ask your vet or the feed rep or both or even a feed rep from another brand.
Getting hung up on one factor, like the NSC of a particular feed, and NOT looking at the overall diet is where people get into trouble.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. It’s possible a particular feed was appropriate for a particular horse at a particular time, or the person asking the questions did not present enough information for someone to make a different recommendation.
Except that a great many vets get their 1 course on nutrition from what is often a Purina “instructor”. They may not have any stake in recommending specific brands, but often the only one they have been “indoctrinated” for is Purina. And it’s so widely available. And they just go with what Purina taught them.
A brand rep is going to sell their brand (duh). If you question the brand rep’s recommendation, run it by your vet. If some anonymous internet poster told you that the NSC value of a particular feed is the most important factor (NOT overall NSC wrt diet balance) then ask your vet or the feed rep or both or even a feed rep from another brand.
Most vets know about as much about nutrition as they do feet. Almost nothing. It’s just not any sort of focus in school, and unless they branch out and start to specialize in either, they pretty much don’t know what they don’t know. A vet is not my first choice for nutritional advice.
Getting hung up on one factor, like the NSC of a particular feed, and NOT looking at the overall diet is where people get into trouble.
I agree, you can’t ignore a 20% hay at 20lb a day in your quest to avoid a couple pounds of a 20% concentrate. But you also can’t ignore the NSC of a given feed when that feed might be fed at 5-10lb/day. There’s something to be said wrt how quickly those pounds enter the horse. 20% NSC spread over 24 hours is not at all the same thing as 20% of 5lb in 1 hour.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. It’s possible a particular feed was appropriate for a particular horse at a particular time, or the person asking the questions did not present enough information for someone to make a different recommendation.
I agree, which is why questions need to be asked, and answered. But every starting point should be based on what is known about the horse and the feed. In this case, appropriate amounts of a 20% NSC feed is NOT an appropriate starting point for a known Cushing’s horse, where developing insulin resistance is very likely not that far down the road.
It may end up that this horse could be perfectly fine on 4-5lb of 20% NSC feed for 10 years. But that’s playing Russian Roulette, especially when there are much more appropriate feeds given alllll that is known about Cushing’s, NSC, IR, and more.
Do these know nothing vets ever bother to do a little education on their own via continuing ed etc? Do they basically think that they know everything they need to know upon graduation to practice veterinarian medicine for the next 40 years? So can we give them credit for keeping up with all the latest research and developments wrt repro, sports medicine, drugs and medications and the effects and side effects, disease, parasites, but NOT nutrition? Maybe I’m running with the wrong crowd of vets, since the ones I know are well rounded, look at feet and legs all day long, many ride and compete, and all have an interest in the overall health of the horse to include diet and nutrition. They may not have taken a course titled Equine Nutrition, but they are intelligent people who understand the importance of nutrition on the overall health and performance of their patients and clients.
I attend the largest equine veterinarian conference every year and nutrition is very prominent in symposiums and discussions, and every brand is represented as are all the big supplement and nutraceutical players. So it’s not just the vets in my little pocket of the country (Mid Atlantic) that I am familiar with. A vet would have to hide under a rock to avoid nutrition.
Maybe the anonymous internet posters who did not go to vet school and do not have a formal education in equine nutrition are a better source? If someone on this board has real credentials, have at it.
NO vet has the time or money to delve more into every lightly-touched on area of equine management. Most vets are GPs, not specialists. I want my vet to know WAY more about disease and injury than nutrition or feet. I can learn most of what I need to know from nutritionists, the NRC guidelines, and peer-reviewed studies that I Have time and desire to learn. I don’t have the time or resources to learn about other things that include medications and stitches and ultrasounds and xrays
So no, most vets DON’T do much in the way of CE for nutrition and feet, and I’m ok with that.
The good vets will know they know too little about nutrition and feet and tell clients that.
The arrogant ones will think they know all they need to know, make the poor customer so afraid of protein because the vet FLIPS over a 30% protein content in a ration balance (because they have NO concept of needing the context of how much is fed), and make the poor horse so miserable and “needing” hock injections because the vet just sees a low heel, so tells the (sometimes equally uneducated) farrier to put wedges on the horse, with nobody understanding how bad the long toes are making that horse feel.
I see the results of those vets all the time. They get posted right here.
So can we give them credit for keeping up with all the latest research and developments wrt repro, sports medicine, drugs and medications and the effects and side effects, disease, parasites, but NOT nutrition?
Even then, far too many vets only know about parasites what they learned 20+ years ago. But you bet they are a lot more up to date on drugs because the pharmaceutical companies make sure of that. Vets aren’t making money staying up to date on parasite resistance. Much more comes their way via AAEP newsletters and conferences for drugs, antibiotics and disease, and as that’s the bulk of their business, yes, that’s where they are going to focus.
Maybe I’m running with the wrong crowd of vets, since the ones I know are well rounded, look at feet and legs all day long, many ride and compete, and all have an interest in the overall health of the horse to include diet and nutrition. They may not have taken a course titled Equine Nutrition, but they are intelligent people who understand the importance of nutrition on the overall health and performance of their patients and clients.
You’re lucky. But your circle of influence is not common in the general vet world.
I attend the largest equine veterinarian conference every year and nutrition is very prominent in symposiums and discussions, and every brand is represented as are all the big supplement and nutraceutical players. So it’s not just the vets in my little pocket of the country (Mid Atlantic) that I am familiar with. A vet would have to hide under a rock to avoid nutrition.
Holding symposiums doesn’t mean people are going. Of course some specialize in that. Mine isn’t a total noob to nutrition, but 15 years ago I was the one who found the connection between copper/zinc and scratches, not her, and it wasn’t that hard to find. She already offered me all she knew with the medicated scrubs and soaps and antibiotics and “immune stimulants”.
Maybe the anonymous internet posters who did not go to vet school and do not have a formal education in equine nutrition are a better source? If someone on this board has real credentials, have at it.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t assume that all vets know enough about nutrition to help a client and at the same thing assume no mere mortal does. Besides, I am not the one saying “don’t ask that group of people, they can’t possibly know anything”. You are saying that nooooooobody in the internet can possibly know enough to guide the OP, while allllllllll vets can. It doesn’t work like that. Seriously - the number of people I’ve had to calm down about their vet totally freaking out about the “so high!!” protein level in ration balancers is cringe-worthy.
Do you know how many vets still think excess protein causes growth problems in foals? Talk about behind the times, and by decades! And some of those are “reproduction specialists”!
8 years ago I had to tell my vet about the microdosing of Lutylase to cycle a mare. It was not new then. My vet does a good bit of reproductive work. Yet she’d never heard of that because she knew what she’d known from the start and it was working for her. Unfortunately she didn’t know that simple change that had been around and easily found with any reasonable CE could have been saving many mares from the dreaded cramping associated with the full dose.
Do you know the number of vets who still think the best way to feed a foundered horse is with the lowest quality hay that can be found? And that’s all - feed that crap hay and nothing else. That too was debunked many years ago.
So no, they are not keeping up with the times on even some of the most basic issues.
Everyone has to learn enough to be able to have some reasonable level of confidence that what they are hearing from anyone is valid information. Blindly trusting someone just because they are the professional, or talk a good game, is a good way to get into trouble. It doesn’t matter who that person is.
But at least discussions here and other similar places get out some terms and issues that might have not been even a thought before, and in the end, it IS up to the OP (or anyone) to decide what to do.
Anecdotal evidence is not real evidence. If a poster has real credentials on equine nutrition, let’s hear them. I don’t think that lumping all vets in one basket based on one person’s limited geographical experience or the comments of some anonymous people on an internet board is real evidence or a good representative sampling of a population.
I presently do Risk Management, but I do not have a degree in Risk Management. I have a Masters in General Business and took ONE class in Risk Management. Yet I am really good at what I do based on demand for my services, measurable results and testimonials from past and present clients. Many of the courses I took support my profession and are important to my ability to do my job, such as finance(and more finance), statistics, insurance operations, etc without actually being called Risk Management.
All biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, physiology, anatomy, cell biology etc classes at both the undergrad and grad level will support a professional’s understanding and comprehension of nutrition without having to actually be called Equine Nutrition. So maybe they only took ONE course in nutrition, but they have a vast amount of knowledge supporting that one course and their additional voluntary self education. Take a look at Cornell’s courses:
Most vets are either large or small animal specialists. You will find further large animal specialization in areas that will support this, and in more populated areas you will find vets that specialize in repro, racetrack, or sports medicine (competition horses). Nutrition touches all of those.
@JB “You are saying that nooooooobody in the internet can possibly know enough to guide the OP, while allllllllll vets can.” No, I’m not. That is an exaggeration.
“Blindly trusting someone just because they are the professional, or talk a good game, is a good way to get into trouble. It doesn’t matter who that person is.” I totally agree. I don’t consider someone who does not have a degree or certification in some kind of science related to nutrition to be a good source, no matter what their level of self education. That is why we have licenses and boards and certifications. If a source will not or cannot list credentials, then what good is it?
Not aimed at anyone in particular, but if you are self-educated and not following a professionally designed curriculum, then you just have to hope you’ve managed to stumble upon everything you need to know, and haven’t left out anything that could be harmful. If you are self-educated, then you ARE asking people for blind trust.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but horse’s with Cushings can tend to have a poor top line even if they are feed a correct diet.
If the horse was out of work and on stall rest for a prolonged time and on a reduced diet due to the lack of work/stall rest. Would it seem prudent to increase the protein the horse is ingesting to make up for the loss and need to build muscle? If the horse has issues with sugars, it would seem that going with 1-2 lbs of a ration balancer and ad lib hay/forage would be better than feeding a high NSC feed to minimum amounts. It can take time for a protein /AA deficient horse to build muscle.
Anecdotes certainly don’t mean anything definitive, but they are another piece of information to stick in the back of one’s head. And while not “real” evidence, they have certainly been a catalyst for some valid studies that do provide real evidence
I don’t think that lumping all vets in one basket based on one person’s limited geographical experience or the comments of some anonymous people on an internet board is real evidence or a good representative sampling of a population.
Egggggzactly. But you did that - you seem to think that based on your personal experiences with a relatively large group of vets in an area that is full of excellent equine veterinary practices, that they define at least the majority of the country. You seem truly puzzled that vets aren’t up on current information on nutrition, parasites ,and reproduction, just because yours are. Your vets see feet and legs all day. Many recommend farriers based on nothing more than the fact that their shoes stay on.
You are fortunate. There are so many people who can’t even get a HORSE vet, they have to rely on cow vets. Or their horse vet is 80 years old and still tube worms and puts motor oil on rain rot.
I’ve been talking to someone the last few days who wants to get her horse tested for insulin resistance. She said her vet has never done it, doesn’t know what the current standards are, but he’ll “try” to at least figure it out. At least he’s willing to try - many will just use what they learned 30 years ago. As much information and research and knowledge and press that is being spread on insulin resistance, that vet doesn’t know what’s current.
I presently do Risk Management, but I do not have a degree in Risk Management. I have a Masters in General Business and took ONE class in Risk Management. Yet I am really good at what I do based on demand for my services, measurable results and testimonials from past and present clients. Many of the courses I took support my profession and are important to my ability to do my job, such as finance(and more finance), statistics, insurance operations, etc without actually being called Risk Management.
Oooookay, so you’re good at RM. Because you’ve studied it (on the job) and have practiced it. I have a BS in Computer Science and minor in Math. I haven’t written a line of formal code in my entire working career, but I’m an excellent requirements engineer because it’s what I gravitated towards in work. I wouldn’t begin to tell you the semantics of coding in today’s world, yet I am really good at what I do based on the demand the PMs in my area of the company have for having me on their projects.
All biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, physiology, anatomy, cell biology etc classes at both the undergrad and grad level will support a professional’s understanding and comprehension of nutrition without having to actually be called Equine Nutrition.
No, it tells them that thumps is caused by an electrolyte imbalance, what high BUN and Creatine mean, but it doesn’t tell them that the PSSM1 horse needs a lot more fat, and the PSSM 2 horse (if they even understand 1) that there is such a thing as PSSM and 2) that there are different types) need a lot more protein, and it sure doesn’t tell them to not flip out over 30% protein ration balancers. Those biology classes, and that 1 nutrition class, don’t tell them the ratio of fe:cu:zn:mn, and it sure doesn’t tell them that most hay in the US is much too high in iron which means most horses need additional copper and zinc.
So maybe they only took ONE course in nutrition, but they have a vast amount of knowledge supporting that one course and their additional voluntary self education.
You’re assuming they 1) care enough to get an actual working knowledge of nutrition, and 2) have the time for that, for something that does not truly add income to their practice unless they decide to become educated enough to offer actual nutrionist services
Most vets are either large or small animal specialists. You will find further large animal specialization in areas that will support this, and in more populated areas you will find vets that specialize in repro, racetrack, or sports medicine (competition horses). Nutrition touches all of those.
Yet look at the % of the country that is not filled with high performance horses, or racetracks, or a concentrated enough horse population of people looking to breed.
Yes, of course, equine veterinarians absolutely specialize in every aspect of horse care you can imagine. They are the specialists. And that is not the majority of them.
@JB “You are saying that nooooooobody in the internet can possibly know enough to guide the OP, while allllllllll vets can.” No, I’m not. That is an exaggeration.
Except you continue to tell people that they shouldn’t trust anyone on their threads about any nutritional advice, and instead to call the feed companies and/or their vet.
I totally agree. I don’t consider someone who does not have a degree or certification in some kind of science related to nutrition to be a good source, no matter what their level of self education. That is why we have licenses and boards and certifications. If a source will not or cannot list credentials, then what good is it?
Do you know how many times I’ve had people tell me things like their certified nutritionist didn’t consider a 40:1 iron:copper ratio to be a problem, since there was technically enough copper in it to cover the NRC minimum? Who didn’t know what NDF and ADF are?
Did you also know there is no governing board covering “equine nutritionist”?
Would you trust Dr Sarah Ralston on this topic? I sure would:
Not aimed at anyone in particular, but if you are self-educated and not following a professionally designed curriculum, then you just have to hope you’ve managed to stumble upon everything you need to know, and haven’t left out anything that could be harmful. If you are self-educated, then you ARE asking people for blind trust.
Everything I state in threads like this can be EASILY found in either the NRC book, in peer-reviewed studies, or in other reputable sources of online information that ANYone can go find themselves. The problems that occur are that most people aren’t remotely educated enough in reading “science” to be able to pick out the quackery from the objective research and know which sites are reputable and which aren’t. And many research articles are hard to read, and I most certainly can’t figure out some of them. But I also don’t use what I might or might not have understood in presenting any information to anyone.
I also don’t stick my head into complicated issues because they are, well, complicated, and need the attention of a vet and specialized team - which usually means the vet doesn’t know enough either and has to consult with a university - who can and will look at a lot more things that appear on bloodwork. Nope, I’m not touching the weird things, other than to offer suggestions for the OP to think about and ask about and do their own research on. After all, COTH has absolutely been responsible for mere mortals with no professional curriculums in sports medicine or nutrition being able to point someone in the right direction, simply because of anecdotes, where their own team of professionals have not been able to guide them.
And as per above, clearly anyone who can stick “nutritionist” after their name is just as likely to be missing a piece of the puzzle, not to mention the vets and the feed companies who might not even have an actual, honest to goodness PhD nutritionist on staff.
I’m still not sure how we got here, from a starting point of a few posters telling the OP that there were better options for a known Cushing’s horse, a harder keeper at that, than the strange mix of too little of a variety of feeds, including a 20% NSC feed, which were perfectly valid suggestions backed not just by feed labels which tell you how much to feed, but any easily accessible information on feeding the Cushing’s horse.
@JB , my god you’ve given me flashbacks. To the old school vet who refused to do a FEC for a horse because it didn’t look like it had worms and insisted that dex suppression is the only test for IR or Cushings. To the non-equine vet on an emergency call whose antibiotic of choice was IV penicillin, and furthermore wanted me to practice my IV administration skills on a distressed horse … with that penicillin :no:. To the inexperienced vet who came back from a feed company sponsored nutrition seminar with all sorts of recommended feed changes and supplements that simply didn’t fit the horse’s nutritional needs but did fit that brand’s product lineup. To the Nutrena “nutritionist” who not only recommended the very SafeChoice Original you mention for an IR horse, but also claimed that the NSC value was much lower than it actually is!
Credentials and diplomas are great. But not only are most vets GPs who have to control many subareas of medicine, but their vet school education also covers many species, so a DVM curriculum does not even provide as much equine-specific education as many horse owners believe. It’s simply not humanly possible for any vet to develop deep expertise across the entire range of knowledge that the DVM credential signifies. Education and credentials are, IMO, just one of the pieces that go into a person’s credibility on health and nutrition.
For me, advocating for my horse means finding the best information I can, and often that boils down to finding expertise that others have developed through experience, regardless of their official credentials. It sounds like Palm Beach learned on the job and built expertise through experience and became quite successful in a career. I’ve known trainers who are extremely good at seeing subtle lameness because they have been involved with dozens and dozens of client horses and those horses’ lamenesses over the years, and they’ve learned from each vet exam they’ve been present for. And on the flipside I’ve known inexperienced vets who struggle to see subtle lameness because they haven’t seen as much of it. Part of the value of the anecdotal information on this forum is that sometimes when you encounter a zebra, this forum can connect you with one of the few other souls out there who have seen the same stripes. The collective experience here shouldn’t be discounted.
And the last thing that I think is important for credibility on health topics is intellectual curiosity and analytical thinking. I might trust the internet poster who asks good questions and can link me to multiple relevant recent studies more than the oldster vet who is too close to retirement to take continuing ed seriously and seems more interested in getting through cases quickly than solving each case effectively. There are a lot of people out there who don’t have vet credentials but can nevertheless read the literature, understand it, and translate it to practical information. Shoot, a few of them are in this thread. Not all vets are good problem solvers and not all good problem solvers are vets.
If I had listened to every equine vet in my life and not given serious consideration to contradictory input from kind, experienced, engaging and curious strangers, I don’t believe my horse would be as healthy and happy as she is today. It’s my responsibility as an adult to use discretion in accepting input from anyone, vet or not. I think it’s a little silly to tell people on this forum not to listen to each other, but to instead trust their vet. Aren’t we here to talk to and learn from each other?
“Except you continue to tell people that they shouldn’t trust anyone on their threads about any nutritional advice, and instead to call the feed companies and/or their vet.”
Not true. I am saying “consider your source.” If you have a back country vet who is the only one in 100 miles and is not an equine specialist, that carries weight. Versus the vet who is an equine specialist and speaks intelligently about nutrition. Or a person who has formal education in a science, health or nutrition related field. Or the layman who does not have a formal science background who attempts to read a journal article where some of the words are longer than post 21.
Does a vet earn money from becoming proficient in nutrition? Maybe not directly, but they do have a vested interest in having healthy happy clients. How much money is being earned providing equine nutritional services by anonymous people online? I’m not aware of anyone earing a fee here.
The people who are formulating the quality brand feeds are professionals in a nutrition related field and specialize in equine nutrition. Sure, they will try to sell you on their brand, but no one is holding a gun to your head. Ask them your nutrition related questions and walk away without getting out your wallet. Weigh that against what your vet says and what the anonymous internet posters say. Maybe you then have more questions. Ask them.
Not speaking for anyone else, but I am here to learn, and to share things I have learned. My free time.
Vets have to decide how much time to put into a topic that is a small part of their business, vs things that are more time consuming and critical to learn (diseases, injuries, medications, etc) that pay their bills.
The typical vet IME doesn’t really have the time to be a nutritionist to analyze the diet of every client who calls him because of chronic scratches, when it’s easier to suggest Hibiclens. Sure, if that vet had a deep enough interest in nutrition, they would make the time and they’d talk to clients about that.
But which comes first - they don’t get the training about the connections between DOD issues and the diet of the mare and foal, or between chronic skin issues and the diet, so they don’t even know to connect scratches to low copper, or they decide that nutrition is not a cost-productive part of their own business so they don’t bother digging further? Either way, it results in a disconnect.
All they know is - is the horse in good weight, is his coat shiny, does he have enough energy? Yes yes yes? He’s good, move on. It’s just reality, like it or not.
The people who are formulating the quality brand feeds are professionals in a nutrition related field and specialize in equine nutrition.
Thankfully, yes
Sure, they will try to sell you on their brand, but no one is holding a gun to your head. Ask them your nutrition related questions and walk away without getting out your wallet. Weigh that against what your vet says and what the anonymous internet posters say. Maybe you then have more questions. Ask them.
That would be ideal, but it requires the person asking to have enough of an understanding already to make sense, and after all, we are taught to “trust the professional”. That’s why so many owners still have horrible farriers and horrible trainers and are with terrible barn owners.
More info is always good. It’s up to the person to make an intelligent decision.
And in the end, what we wish were true doesn’t matter. Until veterinary programs get on board with how critical a role nutrition plays in helping prevent and mitigate any number of health issues, it won’t be a serious consideration, and will continue to require an individual vet to understand that, and seek enough education to be and stay current.
Thankfully, some do, just like some choose to specialize in lameness or dentistry or reproduction or parasitology, none of which are strong contenders in a basic DVM curriculum. They are GPs, nothing more, when they come out of basic vet school.
I’m currently watching one barn mate try to reformulate her feeding regimen for a newly diagnosed PPID horse. She’s diligently talked to 2 very good vets, at least 2 major feed brand reps, and numerous supplement reps. She’s been changing the diet every week or so as she gathers new information. And after her horse developed subclinical laminitis in the midst of this, she has become really angry that the “experts” can’t agree and aren’t giving her a single clear set of answers. But she doesn’t have the science background or critical skills to figure out which of these credentialed people are the most credible and experienced with the nutritional dilemma she is trying to solve, which “experts” she should walk away from, and how she might evaluate scientific claims and make changes systematically. She will pour her heart out to any passerby about how upset she is, but doesn’t care to discuss the nutritional side of things with anyone who doesn’t have DVM after their name or a business card emblazoned with a feed company logo.
In this not unusual case, I would venture that the answer to @Palm Beach 's tongue-in-cheek question, “Maybe the anonymous internet posters who did not go to vet school and do not have a formal education in equine nutrition are a better source?” might be YES. Maybe anonymous, non-credentialed posters who’ve worked through the same problem, who’ve amassed “anecdata” about these products that in many cases surpasses the amount of data that is available from scientific studies, who’ve independently studied the relevant nutritional science, could help. And maybe posters who don’t have “client appreciation events” sponsored by Purina, posters who didn’t formulate (and market) a special supplement, posters who have spent a lot of time comparing the claims and data published by many brands would help her find the crux of her problem and boil down a complex set of information to some simple practical solutions in a way that her panel of experts can’t.
As for veterinary programs, I do hope that nutrition will be integrated better into veterinary education someday. But I’m not convinced that even then an everyday horse owner could count on any vet to have the answers to every nutrition question. All “professionally designed curricula”, as PB calls them, have holes (anyone who thinks otherwise has never designed a syllabus for a postgrad course or sat through a faculty meeting debate about degree requirements). And those holes tend to get bigger the more topics you try to cram into a course of study.
I feed Nutrena ProForce Fuel. It’s a pretty dense and heavy feed. The Nutrena rep I talked to referred my to the Cargill Ph.D. nutritionist when I was feed shopping (Cargill owns Nutrena). The Cargill nutritionist talked with me for a long time, and was very helpful. What she said was more about my horse’s particular situation and less about pushing Nutrena feeds. I talked to the local Purina Ph.D. nutritionist and he also ended up agreeing with the basics of what the Cargill nutritionist said and described the sort of nutritional breakdown that my horse needed, openly stating that Purina makes a good feed for my horse, but so do other brands and I should look for X, Y and Z. I highly suggest talking to the nutritionists at the various feed brands (not the reps, the nutritionists) and learning what each particular formula has to offer YOUR horse.
OP: ProForceFuel has a very high amount of fat and moderate NSC. It’s made for hard keepers. I’m not sure why you are feeding a nutrena balance, a nutrena boost, and a hay stretcher. I could be wrong but these ingredients add nutrients only. I suspect that if you were feeding ProForceFuel to the label’s recommendations for the weight of your horse (WEIGH your food!!!), your horse’s nutritional needs would be covered AND the higher fat would put calories on over time. You can also consider ProForce Fiber which is very similar to Fuel but is more beet pulp based.
mmeqcenter: some people want to balance their horse’s diet. Free choice hay won’t increase weight if that hay isn’t good quality. Fat content/simply adding calories in the diet is important.
^^^ That’s been my experience with feed reps. I usually ask for credentials, and if they don’t have any, they will happily refer me to the nutritionist for further questioning. The premium brands have specialists on staff. Nutrition is complex and there are a lot of moving parts, they tend to keep up with things better than the average person sitting at home tooling around on the internet.
J-Lu you are fortunate to have been able to talk to one of the nutritionists, and one who apparently gets it when it comes to products and horses. The majority of people I talk to are not so lucky.
@x-halt-salute You could be describing any number of people I know. Given that research $$ are not usually spent in the horse world, as opposed to human studies, it’s no wonder that there isn’t more/better education, resources, options.
This BB has been a world of help to myself and I’m sure any number of others, whether they post or not.
@JB is right too, in that the vets are not always the best answer. My vet, altho I love him, I would never ask for nutritional advice from - he’s Purina all the way, no matter what. My former BO got so fed up with his lack of knowledge/willingness to gain other knowledge that she put herself thru a nutritional course (I don’t recall which one), she has a background in nursing - which helps - and she’s been the one who’s educated him in things such as the correct way to test for PPID, etc.
If I have a question about nutrition, cushings, laminitis, she’s my first phone call. Not the vet.
Don’t know why you guys are fighting but you can stop now! Please!
