The good ones - BNTs

[SpicyPRE]

who is this?

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Guyot

I’d bet my farm on the fact that somewhere in all of their riding was a bad day where they lost their temper or pulled the wrong tool and it went bad and looked horrendous.

@Guyot

a lot of us “older” trainers learned with a bit of a shut up and get it done method.

I’ve been thinking about these things also. I betcha every single one of us who’s been around horses for any real length of time has had our “behind the barn” moments. Doesn’t make it “right”, but like you also said:

@Guyot

I do worry about not teaching the next generation of horse people how to be gritty when the moment needs; that we are not setting them up to not be hurt or worse by not having the skill to get rough and tough on occasion when needed.

[Silverbridge]

I don’t know if he qualifies as a big name in this context but yes, Claudio is wonderful. In Wellington and elsewhere he’s def a big name P&P specialist anyway.

My young PRE has worked with him in three separate weekend clinics spaced over the past 18 months.

His enthusiasm is infectious and the horses love him.

(I thought I included a video above, but I apparently don’t know how)

[Warmblood1]

Honestly, in my lifetime of pursuing education related to horses, on my journey it has most frequently been the lesser known trainers who have really made an impact on my journey.

So perhaps the alternatives to the BNT-

The lifetime horseperson who was good enough to survive the industry despite not having a huge name and sponsors. The one that showed upper levels many years ago but is now a better teacher than rider, who has mastered the art of communication and taught countless students to ride. Unlike many BNT who are stretched thin, this teacher often devotes a lot of time/attention towards their student.

Or, the lesser known, ambitious, young professional who is eager and willing to build a good business and make a good name for themselves who has pursued a riding education from the BNTs and is now eager to share that with others.

Or perhaps the culmination of an education. Instead of relying solely on the talent and abilities of one BNT who may ultimately fail you, pursue the knowledge of many trainers, even those in various disciplines. I have done this at times due to a lack of resources and have been pleasantly surprised with the expansive knowledge gained as a horseperson in general. In turn, this transformed/elevated my own particular discipline and approach.

[LadyB]

Just an eventer who has ridden with a few of our BNT’s in Canada. I feel like the ego tends to take over and I would say, there isn’t one BNT that I would say hasn’t done something to be a little questioned. I don’t condone it, but I also don’t ride with them. I’ve experienced things with them, embarrassed I allowed it to happen. I know better as an adult now, and would never, but I can’t believe any BNT is truly genuine.

[LadyB]

I call them my B list trainers, and I’ve received the most from them. I’ll get a true hour lesson for $80, instead of a 15 minute lesson from an olympian for $100.

I have grown so much since moving to more “b list” trainers because they are invested and take the time. BNT’s want to be at the top, and they have to be selfish, but to what cost?

[strangewings]

You can say the same for horses. If you are aiming for the top, you have to move horses out of your program that you don’t click with and can make progress with rapidly. Amateurs and smaller time trainers tend to not have as much freedom or incentive or both to do that. It forces you to confront your mistakes and holes in your own education. Every horse I have ever ridden has offered a unique lesson.

[Manni01]

https://www.tiktok.com/@schmatelka.losgelassen/video/7395166180971007265?fbclid=IwY2xjawEPccBleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHUZuUFb-QHdvc8yjWpG2jBXR3wStu5GD2yUTHCKsxAeYm6yXmvnbkbIWnA_aem_IRKe1Rip7gaxbWHL824PCA

[Annie_Burton]

Gross.

Stretchies are the ruin of the training scale.

[Manni01]

Ok finally I can really recommend a BNT (not sure whether you can call her this). Anja Beran…
I watched and rode with her in a clinic and I was truly impressed about her style of teaching and her perfect timing!!!

[DownYonder]

@Bogey2

C. Haddad is a nut case and I have passed on invitations to ride in her clinics. She is always trying to sell that Stuben Saddle as if that is the answer to all your prayers.

Every time I have watched her ride, her hands are so busy - not just her hands but her entire arm. I get it about having a conversation with the horse’s mouth but Haddad looks like she is playing a harp - back and forth, back and forth, not particularly abusive but her hands are never quiet and subtle. I can’t help but wonder if her horse is thinking, “Will this woman ever SHUT UP?”

[Bogey2]

Ingrid Klimke? She seems to have a good system and reputation.
Morten Thomsen has a great system for ground and under saddle work, have clinched with him

[endlessclimb]

One of the board favorites - Barisone - would NOT be on this list. I’ve seen him do a handful of questionable things in clinic auditing. Wouldn’t surprise me if worse behind closed doors.

[NaturallyHappy]

@mvp

And, if I may continue my rant, our industry is so badly regulated that the only way to have any say in how it goes is to vote with your feet or your wallet. IMO, too many people don’t like the ethics of their pros (sometimes with teaching, but more often with the business dealings)… and yet they pay and stay! I just won’t have that be me.

I haven’t read all of this thread yet…I am shocked by the people who KNOWINGLY pay and stay. Stuns me, actually.

[barnesthenoble]

@J-Lu

Stefan Peters

I have not personally witnessed abuse or bad behavior from Steffen, but I have known several horses who came from his program with behaviors and soundness issues that make me wonder what goes on behind closed doors. The kinds of behaviors that come from having a very deeply-rooted fear of violence or heavy-handedness, and the kinds of injuries that don’t happen in a paddock, stall, or in the course of normal training.

[sascha]

@barnesthenoble

The kinds of behaviors that come from having a very deeply-rooted fear of violence or heavy-handedness, and the kinds of injuries that don’t happen in a paddock, stall, or in the course of normal training.

Well that’s disturbing

I’m fairly firmly in the camp of weird behaviours cannot always be blamed on training, but weird injuries Yuck.

[barnesthenoble]

It was really disappointing to find out. And it was four horses over a period of about 8 years, purchased at different times and by clients with different trainers. I haven’t been in touch with the last folks I knew who’d purchased one since about 2019, so it’s been a few years, things may have changed.

I definitely tend to err on the side of weird stuff possibly being behavioral, but when it’s similar (seemingly normal things that might cause a typical horse to spook, but not lose their s&^%) triggers resulting in blind panic or aggression across multiple horses, well…idk. It was upsetting and disillusioning.

[Carried_Away]

Sadly, I know of several examples of this very thing. It’s very different to take lessons with someone, or even be in their barn or program vs. actually working alongside them.

[Lunabear1988]

Yep honestly people are just not perfect. Humans are flawed and often blind to their own imperfections and hypocrisy.

[Demerara_Stables]

@barnesthenoble

I have not personally witnessed abuse or bad behavior from Steffen, but I have known several horses who came from his program with behaviors and soundness issues that make me wonder what goes on behind closed doors. The kinds of behaviors that come from having a very deeply-rooted fear of violence or heavy-handedness, and the kinds of injuries that don’t happen in a paddock, stall, or in the course of normal training.

I have this same experience but with an N=1. I know nothing of his methods but I had to fix a horse that had been with him for a little over a year and it was not pretty.