[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3448975]
WTF[/QUOTE]
You watch. He had much more to offer - he was still best but she was careful.
I’ve already seen the test, on TV. I did not think that she held back.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3449122]
Must be one of those right brain - left brain things. More likely no brain though?[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about?
[QUOTE=Bats79;3449142]
You watch. He had much more to offer - he was still best but she was careful.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
I think the “spook” problem happened because she pushed him a little to hard – and he said, 'DANG woman! I heard yah the first time, now back off and let me do my job!"
Then she did. She asked him the questions and backed off and let him answer his own way.
Above is purely speculation on my part and just the feeling I got watching.
Eileen
I think that’s cognitive dissonance at work.
Didn’t have time to read everything, so don’t know if this has been posted:
It’s a list of all the scores for all the movements by each judge - very informative. Very informative to look at whilst watching. You can absolutely see that EVERY judge severely marked down for the disobedience in IW’s test (0-3 on the mvmt, 6s for submission across the board)…but she had enough high marks to make up for it. Like I think has been well-described, because, unlike hunter or WP, each movement is judged as a ‘blank slate’ its entirely possible for a horse to have 1 major disobedience and still do very, very well - happens regularly at all levels, although its especially easy at the upper levels because there are so many more movements and points in play.
Interesting to note that in the collective marks, C3/Submission, AvG did not score much higher than IW did.
IW C3: 6, 6, 6, 6, 6
AvG C3: 6, 7, 7, 7, 7
Eileen
Thanks for posting each judges scores for each movement. How the heck could Gary Rockwell give her a 6 when others gave her a 0? As far as I am concerned when the horse came above, almost reared and ran back that can’t be above a 1. Also, to me the very deliberate disobedience there is much worse than Anky breaking in the half pass or Ravel making a couple little mistakes because he is young and green. I agree that the rest of IW test was amazing and she deserved all of those scores. However, I cannot see how the German judge could score all 4 of the top rides with a 6 for submission. That is to me totally bogus. Why did Bonaparte get a 6 from him? While that test did not have me at the edge of my seat with excitement I think it was better than a 6 in the submission department. Also he gave Lancet a 5 for submission. Trying to recall what I think was a very obedient and submissive test, what the hell did Lancet do to get a 5? That 5 should have gone to Satchmo. IW got the horse back in line due to her amazing tact and ability as a rider. That horse wanted to back right out of the ring and go home. The other horses’ submission shortcomings were all a lot less deliberate.
Also, Salinero has some uneveness issues. He does look like he is more work to ride. His uneven extensions and breaking in the half pass is not just tension. I am not saying he should be whistled out for lameness, but he is not moving like he used to.
Ravel is my favorite but he is young and he made some mistakes. I don’t think he was judged harshly I just think Anky and IW rides had some over generous scoring. Courtney as usual did a fabulous job. When she gets paired up with a horse with as much grace and talent as she has, I just think she might knock the others off the podium.
Not necessairly
[QUOTE=Bugs-n-Frodo;3448102]
Honestly, this is discouraging. Anky’s horse WAS uneven in some movements. Isabel was having a nice ride, I love Satchmo, but COME ON!!! This is so dissapointing to watch. If ANYONE else’s horse did that, you can bet the score would have been on the 60’s. What crap.[/QUOTE]
Its the consitancy of the moves, and correctness.
they recovered well and went on with some lovely work.
I have had it happen to me and still score well. Have seen it with others as well.
What are movements 15 and 16, precisely? I know one of them is the piaffe.
Found it: http://www.fei.org/Disciplines/Dressage/Organisers/Documents/GPS_E.pdf
- G Piaffe 12 to 15 steps 10 The cadence and regularity.
- G Proceed in passage
Transitions from collected walk to
piaffe and from piaffe to passage
10 Submission and willingness.
I liked Melanie Smith Taylor’s commentary better yesterday than on previous occasions.
[QUOTE=kkj;3449659]
. . .Also, to me the very deliberate disobedience there is much worse than Anky breaking in the half pass or Ravel making a couple little mistakes because he is young and green. I agree that the rest of IW test was amazing and she deserved all of those scores. However, I cannot see how the German judge could score all 4 of the top rides with a 6 for submission. That is to me totally bogus. Why did Bonaparte get a 6 from him? While that test did not have me at the edge of my seat with excitement I think it was better than a 6 in the submission department. Also he gave Lancet a 5 for submission. Trying to recall what I think was a very obedient and submissive test, what the hell did Lancet do to get a 5? That 5 should have gone to Satchmo. IW got the horse back in line due to her amazing tact and ability as a rider. That horse wanted to back right out of the ring and go home. The other horses’ submission shortcomings were all a lot less deliberate. . . .[/QUOTE]
The submission score is not about subordination, but obedience, and obedience is only part of the submission score. The horses are not supposed to be robots, but willing partners. Part of the score is whether or not the horse accepts the bridle and is on the bit. MANY of those horses are not on the bit and most are evading and behind the vertical. They are being scored down for that and it looks like the German judge is very strict, good for him!
IW’s horse is not BTV, Salinero is ALWAYS behind the vertical. Lancet went BTV quite a few times, most noticeably in the extended trot. In the extended trot you want the horse’s nose pointing where the feet are going to land – in front of the verticle. Bonaparte went BTV a few times as well, again with the extended trot.
I’m not defending the judging, just trying to make things clearer – for myself, mainly. Once I started comparing the performances and scores against the FEI rules things started to make sense to me.
Above are just my observations. I’m probably missing a lot of stuff. Like there was something else “wrong” with Bonaparte’s ride that I just can’t put my finger on.
Eileen
