I am sure it is different in true ranch country but around here it is the folks who participate in our version of “ranch rodeo” and local non affiliated team sorting and penning that have the worst stock handling skills. I truly believe it is because very few of them own stock which is why I say it is more than likely different in other parts of the country. The team ropers are great as are the RCA guys.
Years ago I had to threaten to shut down the sorting at our local fair if the contestants didn’t stop running the cattle in between runs. It was over 100 degrees with at least 60 percent humidity and cattle were open mouth breathing. We were spraying them with hoses and they were dry in seconds. I held up quite a few runs to the chagrin of many as it was evening and I was waiting for the heat break but finally I had it and got on the mic and laid down the law that I would shut the whole thing down period if they didn’t stop running cattle back to the herd or down the shoot. The three of us on the horse committee who were tasked with keeping the cattle were livid.
Since you said “kind of the dressage of western riding,” I just want to say that i, personally, have never like this comparison. Now I enjoy watching reining and I have ridden reiners, but. …They are started young and are essentially a finished product at 3-4. There is no “grand prix” reining or advanced moves. What the horse does at three is what he does as long as he lasts. It may become more polished and refined, but the movements remain the same…fast and slow lope/gallop large/small circles with single changes, spins, rollbacks, backing, sliding stops. That’s it. Other than riding a set (variety) of pattern(s), there isn’t any real similarity to dressage and its progressions of training. I’m not saying there is any lack of skill or talent in training reiners, just that, well…you don’t have 3 year old grand prix dressage horses (or GP jumpers for that matter)😉
I actually like stock horse classes better, where they do the reining pattern, hold a cow, then work it. Best I ever personally saw was not a QH, but Sheila Varian’s little Arab mare, Ronteza, who hit a slick spot when working a cow, fell, leapt to her feet and caught and turned it before it could get past her.
I’ve watched two episodes, and was more struck by the competitors relative indifference to their mounts, other than the young woman. Oh they pat them for a good performance, and take excellent care of them, but there seems to be something “missing.”. I know they are pros and perhaps that’s part of it. I don’t expect “middle aged lady kissing her horse” attitudes, but there just seems as certain coldness. I might say Vanlandingham seemed to have a bit more of a relationship with his horse, but the others. …meh.
In dressage, you train a horse so it is a better moving and working horse and then you use the horse for lessons, trail riding, jumping, polo, whatever you want to use it.
Some of those horses then you train further in Dressage movements and compete with them in how well they do those movements.
For most other horses trained in dressage initially, most will never go there, even higher levels of eventing doesn’t has what dressage higher levels demand of their horses.
When comparing a Reiner with other western performance horses, that Reiner is trained in the basics to be a handy horse you can do so much else with, like cut a cow in good balance, stop without bouncing when roping, etc.
Many western colt starters today use the basics of reining training to have better trained horses in their different disciplines.
Compare todays cutters or barrel racers with those a couple decades ago.
Those then were barely broke, but were good at working cattle or running barrels.
Today, with better basic skills, those reining provides, those horses are that much better at their tasks.
Talking about working cow horse, when cutters started participating, Boyd Rice is given credit for that, their cutting became so much better, compared with what it was before.
The past few years, that is happening to their dry work.
Their reining has also been improving, where it is not so painful to watch any more.
Most competitors at least have an idea of what the judges are looking for at that lower level.
You are right that for so much else western horses do, no, they don’t need to run to a stop and slide or spin like a top, any more than an eventer needs to go passaging down the course to the next water jump.
When considering those concepts of basic training for English riding using dressage and western start as reiners, there is where I was comparing them, not where dressage itself or reining itself at the higher level takes these horses.
Bluey, that’s a fair enough take on it, and I appreciate that you expanded on the initial comment. I was more speaking to those who maintain ( and I have met such), that a “finished” reiner is the equal/equivalent of a high level dressage horse. It is, or course, more of an apples and avocados comparison. 😉
Right there, having been around western riders watching dressage in the olympics.
They were appalled at how dressage horses performed, “so very stiff and uptight, do they ever give them their head, let them move with a natural swing to them, or do they always work like a 2” x 6", that looks painful!"
No telling what dressage competitors are saying of the reiners, other than “what horrible gaits, so choppy and fourbeating, they are so short, those must be ponies, big adults should not be riding those!”
It is in the “educated” eye of the beholder, is it, what we want, train and expect of a horse.
I have cut cattle form the herd many times when sorting. The situations often present themselves, but the true stockman/horseman keeps it calm as possible and lets the horse do their job while keeping stress on the cattle to a minimum. Now, does it look like the open futurity? No way LOL, but cutting in the pen while sorting, gathering, doctoring, etc does happen often. That’s where it came from originally, but of course money/competition/bragging rights have made the finesse we see today.
At my last few jobs, if you didn’t work cattle in a calm manner with no more than a trot, you’d be without a job. I will not work for guys who run their cattle, and horses as a result, when gathering, sorting, etc… My last boss taught me how to load into an open trailer out in pasture with no panels or anything to help. Just pressure and release and patience gets a lot more done than running them all over Creation. It was great for the stock and a really good time for the young horses.
Right you definitely cut them out and keep them turned back once maybe twice but not for a whistle!
I just think it has evolved to just as much as a show situation as reining has and dressage has.
I will say that cutting doesn’t seem to have the show pen trends that say reining does. Unless you count loping circles and loping circles and loping circles…
Many years ago,however, Denny Callin did a Grand Prix dressage exhibition ride on the SWB stallion Zorn, at the big Denver stock show, and one cowboy was duly impressed and heard to say, "i 'd love to try that horse on cattle! Looks like he’s really got a handle on him. " 😄
I don’t see why I’m even engaging, but I made it specifically in response to Bluey’s comment, and we have had a nice discussion. Seems like you’re the one stirring the pot now.
She appealed the decision immediately and they said they would lift the suspension if she just went ahead and gave up her non pro card.
Trainers wife is a grey area…if you give someone a piece of advice are you violating non pro rules because your husband receives remuneration for training?
Oh is she the only woman married to a trainer? In her defense, didn’t she mention 30 or 40 women who are married to trainers? And she is the only one who had to give up her NonPro status? My bad.
I had a great passage in the bull pasture the other day.
We cut three bulls out of a bunch of 70, to take to the corral and doctor …nice and quiet…
And then when we got 100 yards away, 30 bulls got curious and came buck-farting on down at a gallop.
My cowpony gave me a lovely, lively passage. So therefore, cow work and dressage are really the same thing.
And also, I’ve practiced roping on our purebred cattle. But to be fair, it’s a breakaway honda rope.
We are required to brand our cattle on their grazing leases. You can certainly use a calf chute, but it’s easier on everyone, assuming you have a good crew and not a bunch of Yahoos, to rope the calves to brand them.
