when I was saying this would be like another Vietnam, I didn’t specify the nature of the similarity… I was thinking along the lines of how unnecessary it is/was.
The combat techniques and roots in history are too diverse to draw any similarity. Each are very unique.
There are other ways of bringing down leaders without waging war on innocents. It is a shame that we are terrorized, yet we are on the edge of embarking a very similar mission.
Spel chekers, hoo neeeds 'em? Alan James Bean
Ain’t my lil’ sister great? 
And she even schools me at horse shows!
If World History in the making has to be covered and documented… and indeed it does… then let’s be thankful for decent, compassionate journalists like Beezer and her peers, who are represented here on the BB and elsewhere.
“Charter Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group of North America”
>> I read a quote from a well-known news photographer (Reuters, I think) who took some photos of people jumping from the windows of the WTC. He said he hesitated at first, unsure of whether he should take such photos… but then decided he was in position to record the events for history, and pressed the shutter <<
Erin, I’m glad you posted this comment but not for the response given by the photographer. For myself I feel that such images are not for public consumption whatsoever.
Its repugnant to see images such as those captured by some idiot photographer, scanned into electronic form, posted on the new agency’s web site and then quickly traded about on people’s pc’s in some macabre spectacle. There is no benefit at all for human kind to see that. Capturing the last moments of another human being, dying without any dignity and in, without question, one of the most horrifying ways is not news.
If such was true then why not open the gates of human depravity and show nightly on the news not just the sheet that covers the body at a crash site but the blood and guts too. Under the same warped logic that too would be a record for posterity.
Reuters, AP, and the other agencies who have engaged in this modern “journalism” should be sued by the loved ones for additional pain and suffering.
I applaud our own reporters, and Beezer’s and CNN’s and everyone else’s.
It’s very simple to turn off the tv or radio if you don’t want to hear it. Or not pick up a paper if you don’t want to read it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Houdini:
We all understand the horrific nature involved. We need images of hope not images of horror.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As a (amateur) photographer, I have to disagree on this one… photographs should portray the truth in the situation, and therefore allow us to pick out whatever part we most need/want to see. The camera doesn’t lie, and images of horror can be just as meaningful as those of hope.
That said, I have not seen the photograph in question, and I agree that it sounds at least somewhat insensitive, if not downright cruel, to display it in the media.
Thank you. That is what I felt. I admit, I have since been posting from a more defensive position, after feeling attacked (which is everyone’s right!). But that was one of my biggest problems. It just did not seem right, to me.
Thanks to everyone else, too, who understands.
Oh, I could continue with callus replies in response to those who want to argue over what neither of us will see eye-to-eye on, but maybe it’s time to stop and seek those friends of mine with open minds and hearts. The ones who whether they agree or not, can discuss the issues with me and present a perspective that is undiminished by their capacity to understand the fact that people often simply disagree. (And that this is what makes America great, and what makes Americans–Americans.)
[This message was edited by Velvet on Sep. 17, 2001 at 07:29 PM.]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Velvet:
Maybe what they should be doing is moving towards more of that sort of coverage, and away from those constant replays of the towers and the Pentagon?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most of the news agencies have moved towards that kind of coverage. The human face of destruction is certainly the focus of many of the current news reports as is information about the hunt for the terrorists.
Sorry, but I can not find fault with the way in which this has been covered in the media. IMHO, all of the journalists have done an incredible job during a very difficult time.
And this situation is going to be going on for a long, long time.
Velvet - perhaps you would feel better if you channeled your anger towards something more constructive or at least towards the terrorists! The media DID NOT coordinate the attacks of last week. As an American and a journalist, I am insulted that you would take the time to bash reporters for simply doing their jobs. Could you clarify for me which team you are rooting for because your posts have me confused.
I applaud Beezer’s words!! I tried to ignore your comments and get back to my work but the anger I felt after reading your posts got to me. At a time when our country needs to be pulling together, it seems you are doing your part to be destructive. Haven’t we endured enough already?
As far as why we do the job, I can only speak for myself. The love and sheer desire to tell the story as accurately as possible tops the list. To find some way to offer a positive slant on an otherwise “bad news day.” To give dignity to the innocent lives lost. To inform and help preserve history. Without a record of events, our future generations have no way to teach young people about our previous mistakes and therefore avoid them in the future. How would you have learned about Pearl Harbor, WW2, the assassination of world leaders, etc.? It is all about educating, enlightening and asking people to pause for a moment, take a deep breath and think about the events taking place in our great nation. If people choose to be uninformed - that is their right but don’t attack those for offering something more to those who NEED and DEMAND more from our media.
I didn’t find it callous at all. Disturbing, horrifying, unimaginable. Those words came to mind. But I never once thought to blame the photographers/videographers who took those shots. They were recording facts.
It’s important to note and record everything that happens. When the air vaccum caused by the explosion and susequent explosions of the glass windows caused those poor souls to be literally sucked out of the buildings, as horrible as it is, it will have an impact on future high rise planning and design. And will hopefully save lives in the future.
IMHO, some good may eventually come out of the decision to show/record this shocking image.
I appreciaate your reflections. Somehow, it is important that we all learn that there are different strokes for different folks. That’s what this great country is all about.
I have been glued to the TV listening to all the stories about who these hijackers were, the history of Bin Laden which I admit I didn’t know at all. I too resent the “big brother mentality” which thinks it needs to protect those not so clever as the poster. And the same “big brother” which might want to sanitize the news that I hear.
I think there is an assumption by some that we are not intelligent enough to make a proper decision. Like sheep we can be stampeded and I have more confidence in our national intelligence than that.
I think it good for children to see what a real disaster is, and how people can pitch in and help each other. I think that it has been wonderful for them to see our police and firemen doing their real jobs well. What a relief to have these service units considered heros instead of some ball player whose talent is simply ssmacking a little white ball better than anyone else.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if little children got back to wanting to be policemen and firemen and volunteering for First Aid squads. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if when they grew up they at least learned all those skills. Isn’t it better than all the news about corruption and selfishness which demans those who are really caring and dedicated.
I get from the news a great pride in how truly generous the people in this country can be. I am thrilled after all these years that people feel they want to sing songs which glorify this wonderful land. Imagine to actually be able to play the National Anthem and have everyone stand quietly and respect it.
I think the media has been spectacular in bringing us the stories of all the good things people are doing. What a relief from years of hearing nothing but how bad we all are.
That’s part of the problem…there’s no other channel to turn to.
And, I’ve never said you can’t turn off the TV, but there are many people in this world who have a 7th grade (or lower) level of education (as proven by journalisms writing standards), and they are the ones who might not understand the implications of watching something like this repeated constantly.
I just worry that those people (who are considered the majority) are going to push for a war or something else that’s possibly not rational. Oh, someone will be “removed from this planet” for what happened. But will it require war to satiate a blood lust that is derived from the constant bombardment of these images? Something that might require the death of thousands of innocents, without serving the purpose we intend (of removing the leader of a terrorist group)?
I think this is why I at least want them to move on and get into the recovery part, and show the good more than the bad, at the moment. We have all seen it, we are all mourning, but we also need to know what is happening NOW.
Like I keep saying…JMHO.
Since you clearly have your ass on your shoulders!
Robby
"Smart Alec
That’s part of the problem…there’s no other channel to turn to."
So do something else. I don’t have cable so most of the channels I get are network channels where, yes, most of what’s on is news. Still, there ARE other things on. You could also rent a movie, go for a walk, ride your horse, go out to eat, get a cup of coffee—all things I have done myself when I need a break. Don’t blame the news because you don’t have enough self control to turn away. As for other adults watching…well, whether they have a good education or not…that is their right as Americans to keep in touch with what is going on.
Goin’ back to the pledge thread now… 
I can always count on you to keep me up-to-date on the latest fashion trends and trendy designers. 
I started this topic last night, when they were barely giving a moment to the rescue attempts. That’s when this started. This morning, maybe they’ve changed their coverage. Did any one see WHAT I said I wanted covered?
I do know people who live in the heart of Manhatten. They are all right. Yes, if they were not, I would want to know about the rescue operations, I never said to stop talking about that. My problem is with the bombardment of speculation and the images of the initial attack. I want to know what is happening NOW, but I also don’t need them hunting up excitement, nor using filler. If they have something to say, come and the TV and say it. If they are filling time, go to other things that are happening around the world.
This is what I’ve been talking about, and others seem to understand what I’ve been saying…maybe we’ll have to go back to “agree to disagree.”
Could we PUHLEEZE get back to talking about fashion and designers. Sheesh! Now, Robby, about Gucci… do the gloves and shoes and bag HAVE TO match this season?
>>>I personally am beginning to think people should be required to watch at least some news on every topic after a conversation yesterday with a fellow who thought we should send ground troops to Afghanistan.
Totally agree. This comment also made me think of my secondary school education. I was lucky enough to go to what was regarded as a very good school. However, when I look back, I’m appalled at the pathetic selection of history courses and the complete lack of any current events courses. In our first year, Ancient History was the requirement. We had to take U.S. History (very sanitized version at that) in our Jr. or Sr. year. We never even got past WW1!!! My recollection is that there was a European History course offered. There were absolutely NO courses covering the Middle East. I’m not part of the academic world, so maybe things have improved. If not, I’d love to see better offerings at the secondary level. I’d also like it to be mandatory that everyone studies current events. I’m embarrassed by my own lack of knowledge and am scouring the Internet in an attempt to learn. Of course, it’s quite a challenge to weed out facts from opinions.
I’m a print journalist. I’ve been one for f-ing ever. This week has been so beyond bearing, so beyond wounding … and, yet, as much as a big, huge part of me wants to slam you, I cannot completely bring myself to. Because while I do not agree with you (I, for one, cannot bear the thought of watching “Fraiser” or “ER” at this point in my life, though I do agree that Animal Planet has been a welcome relief at 2 a.m.), I can intellectually understand where you are coming from. And while I, too, cry during the interviews with survivors, I feel like the worst kind of pond scum for watching – and for asking these people to open up about what has to be the worst kind of pain no one can imagine.
But apparently, those are the kinds of stories people want … which I find sadly ironic, because usually in the aftermath of a disaster, most people attack the media for “victim stories”; now, everyone wants them.
Even though I am an editor, the magnitude of this atrocity has forced me back to the newsroom’s front lines. I have had to make endless phone calls to victims’ families and have had to cajole and coach reporters into making even more – including to the family who lost a little boy. I have had to talk to rescuers, escapees and people so very desperate to do something to help that they are calling my paper to beg for information on where they can go and what they can do. And don’t forget to mix in a few calls from idiots who think all the Muslims should be rounded up and put under guard on abandoned military bases because “they” are all out to kill “us” (you have no idea how my tongue bled from my biting it) and people so terribly afraid that they think they see terriorists behind every tree.
There is a part of me that feels unspeakably dirty. But it is my job. And in some small, tiny way, I am doing my part to tell a horrific episode in my world’s history.
I told myself that even as I essentially pushed one of my brightest young reporters on the first plane out of a local airport yesterday – despite his longtime reluctance to fly, which is now only more magnified – because we were the first place up and flying, and we needed someone on that plane. He wound up in Atlanta; he’d barely touched down before I had him on another flight to Florida to go get the story on the flight school that trained some of these bastards.
That’s his job. Fortunately for my paper and its readers, he is good at it. Very good. He makes me very, very proud. Unfortunately for him, he has no clothes with him, no cash, no clue about where he’s going to be staying for the foreseeable future and no idea when he might be home. And no end in sight to worrying about the fate of several of his – and my – colleagues who were at “ground zero.”
None of us WANT to be doing this. None of us WANT to be covering an act so hideous as to be beyond words. I can honestly say I don’t know of anyone who’s “getting off” on covering this story; we really aren’t a bunch of unfeeling wretches who get our jollies from reporting on others’ agonies. Frankly, and not to be overly macabre, but I would, at this point, like to have some time to watch the TV coverage, to absorb and process what has happened. I would have liked to have watched the memorial services today; but I have a job to do.
But this isn’t about me. It isn’t about ANY journalist, as the wonderful young photographer who took the incredible shot of the firefighters raising the flag at the WTC said so eloquently this morning. Believe it or not, it isn’t even about you, the viewing and reading public.
We are simply trying to do our jobs, to tell a horrific story that no family – even one as big as the American family – should have to endure. Our job is to tell that story. I know we have made mistakes. I know that we will make more. I know that people will listen with only one ear, read and watch with one eye, and that will lead them to think they have read or seen or heard whatever that is patently not true; lord knows I’ve dispelled more than my share of rumors these last awful days.
I am sorry if the job we are doing disturbs you. I can only hope that it will sear into our collective conscious that real people have died, that real people have suffered unimaginable losses.
That is the only thing that matters. The only thing any of this job is about.
Now excuse me. I have to get back to work. Please, everyone stay safe.
Bulletin Board Goddess
I am in complete and utter agreement with you. May I hope to have 1/10 of your talent of expressing myself as you do. Your words echo my own. Being involved with the press at a much lower level I have been involved with covering this as well and it is chilling but it is history.
I would not want to open the paper and see a picture of someone I love falling to their death. I agree that it makes for an emotional picture. Perhaps I wouldn’t be so upset if it wasn’t such an up close and personal shot. In this tradgedy I don’t think it is necessary to shock people into understanding what a horrific event this was. I think what we need from the media is to be kept informed of political actions and of survivors being found and of the investigation. We all understand the horrific nature involved. We need images of hope not images of horror.
>>>“Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken”<<<
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