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The Middle East in a nutshell

I’ll give a brief (and hopefully not grossly innacurate) overview of the highest level…

First and foremost. Osama Bin Laden is not a Palestinian. He is an exiled Saudi who is a psychopathic madman. It is not to anyone’s credit that he might support their cause (Iraq, Palestine, Syria, whatever). But I truly believe he ONLY supports those causes because he is a madman. He doesn’t really give a rat’s ass for anyone other than himself.

The Palestine Mandate, which includes all of present day Isreal (disregarding the previous several thousand years of discord, war, annihilation and just overall evilness in the name of One’s Religion) was more or less under the control of the British Empire prior to WWII, and primarily populated by the Palestinians. For many years there had been political movements to restore the Jewish people to their homeland, and most were more or less summarily ignored by the world in general, Britain and America in particular.

Following WWII, the movement gained support and approval from Britain, America and Europe for the obvious reasons (“we turned our backs big time, and we’d like to begin to say how sorry we are…”). Jewish citizens were permitted to move into Israel and claim undeeded land.

As I understand it, the nomadic arabs did not exactly maintain the same level of record keeping of land as the Europeans, so Palestinians were displaced. And so began a long simmering conflict, which has it’s roots in the West trying to right a wrong. Sad, really…

Add to it the one big change - Oil. Oil in the arab states. Conflict with a pocketbook is a whole different story…

Add to this the Cold War, where it became very fashionable for middle east countries to align themselves with either the US or the USSR, and it became even more entrenched.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by starlady:
And as an Egyptian friend of mine says, “Moses was here, and he couldn’t fix it, Jesus was here, and he couldn’t fix it, Muhammed was here, and he couldn’t fix it, now you think YOU’RE gonna fix it?” --s.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

starlady - your egyptian friend might possibly be the most insightful person I have heard of…

Flash - Yes, although to be an Israeli is to be a citizen of a country (one could be any religion), the majority of Israelis are jewish, and the majority of Palestinians (and most other countries in the middle east) are muslim. However, if memory serves me correctly, most native Lebonese are one of the oldest continuous christian sects.

2dogs, yes, war in the name of religion certainly isn’t a localized or new concept. In modern times alone, one only has to look to the Pakistan-India conflict, the Armenian-Azerbaijan conflict, the China-Tibet conflict… And I haven’t even delved into the “my angle on our religion is better than YOUR angle on our religion” conflicts (Northern Ireland with Protestant-Catholic discord and the various Shi’ite-Sunni conflicts in some Muslim countries)… shall I go on? And every single one of these incredibly complex conflicts has existed for many, many generations, and can no way be narrowed down to a single area of dispute.

A Dutch newspaper had a report today that a suicide bomber killed or critically wounded the Afghan opposition leader who was the biggest and most effective threat to the Taliban… the day BEFORE the attack on America. So it would appear that they have prudently and conveniently eliminated the only source of aid we could have expected to find within Afghanistan should our government decide to retaliate one way or the other against Osama bin Laden. Assuming it’s true, of course.

In addition because the Palestinians were displaced from their own homes they in turn had a good reason to be angry !Until the nomadic groups formed governments that were well organized and had funding through the oil production they weren’t much of a threat but now it is a different story.The fundamentalist Muslims are a whole different type of creature from the average Muslim .It i s bin laden’s mission to punish all those who aid Isreal .After the first WTC bombing about 8 yrs ago and the subsequent trials where his cohorts were convicted he made threats to" Get The US PIGS "It was yesterday that the terrorists convicted of the first WTC bombing were to be sentenced . AFGHANISTAN harbors Bin Laden allows him to hide behind their borders .None of the other ARAB gulf countries can comfortably turn their backs on Bin Laden for fear of retributon .The entire middle east "ISSUE " is very comlex To say well just go in and get him is way too simplistic.If we demand that Afghanistan hand him over and they don’t what are we supposed to do? Send in troops ?declare war on AFGHANISTAN? Any students of European History remember what started WW1.The frustration our leaders must feel is tangible to me .If there is a way to get him surreptitiously I am sure it will be done .

One of the very serious consequenses of the disenfranchisement of large groups in the post-Colonial era, which began roughly in the years following WWII, is that generations of these groups have now lived thier entire lives either as refugees, literally growing up in camps (which is the status of the Palestinians, since they were displaced, first by the Zionist movement, ie the return of Jews to their point of historic orgin, and then by the creation of the state of Israel), former pawns of the Cold War powers (this is the status of Iranians, since the USA supported the Shah prior to his fall, and the Iraquis, and of Afghanistan, which contains conflicting factions, each of which had support from opposing super powers), or victims of domestic political instability (with opposite sides, more often than not, fueled by support from opposing super powers) that followed the withdrawal of stable colonial administration (Algeria, Lebanon, the majority of governments in Africa)…In addition, the distribution of wealth and resources among the countries of these regions is unequal- -most of the unrest originates,understandably, from areas where wealth and resources are sparse…Though the Arab world is often considered as a more or less cohesive group of nations, this is not the case, as many conflicting interests divide them: those with oil rely (primarily) on a steady flow of Western (ie American and European) currency to maintain the high standard of living enjoyed by their citizens that has allowed their governments or kingdoms to remain stable, even if they do philosophically sympathize with their less fortunate neighbors. Those with less, strategically located, had brokered their location and numbers to the highest bidder, but with the end of the Cold War, this source of stability has disappeared. The thorny problem of political instability within Israel only complicates matters–recently, the Barak government fell in large part because of what Israeli conservatives felt were too many concessions to the Palestinians, chief among these is the possibility of allowing actual Palestinian self-rule; the installation of Sharon at the head of their government guarenteed that those who favored a hard-line, unyielding approach would determine Israeli policy, dooming the already dim prospects of the peace process in the near term. Politically, the Palestine Liberation Organization has been recognized as the voice of the Palestinians; the military arm of this is the Palistine Liberation Army; the radical and most militant is Hamas. The task of Yassir Arafat, as head of the Palestinians, is nearly impossible: to lead his people to statehood in a location which is controlled by another country. Each time the Arab world or elements thereof have engaged Israel militarillyin support of Palestine, they have actually lost more than they began with because of the superior use of military power by Israel…this is how the state of Israel confirmed its existance in 1948, and how Israel gained control, in the Six-Day War of 1967, of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights, which are of vital strategic importance, as they overlook and therefore guarentee domination over positions from which enemy attacks might originate. Borders have been negotiated and renegotiated and zones of control (such as the Gaza Strip and the West Bank) have changed hands (among Israeli, Palestinian, and UN forces) as the “peace process” has progressed or regressed…The Palestinians and Israel both claim Jerusalem, and both do so on religious as well as political grounds, an item of disagreement that has proved completely unsolveable. The Israeli / Palestinian conflict, the latest incarnation of which has been the “infantadah” waged by ordinary Palestinians against the Israelis serves to fuel the fires of political unrest in countries in the region that are not stable; some leaders seek to offer an alternative to dependence on the “imperial powers” of the West by appealing to the most basic sense of nationalism on the part of their citizens (as in Iraq); others embrace the rise of the Islamic fundamentism, which on religious grounds has determined the West (led by the USA) as unholy and evil, and have declared a “jihad” or holy war; those who join it and sacrifice their lives to martyrdom are assured an afterlife of glory in paradise, an appealing alternative compared to the misery they have known in this life. Of course, very few states are willing to overtly condone the use of terrorism, but the knowledge that states such as Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Cuba are known to provide training and safe harbor to terrorist groups are reasons why these countries have been ostracized and shunned by the West and (overtly) by those whose interests are joined with the West. Terrorism is a sensational and relatively economical tactic (economical compared to the substantial resources necessary to wage traditional warefare) used to make a point or achieve infamy in the name of a cause (usually political; in the use of modern terrorism, sometimes the religious and political are merged)…those who embrace terrorism are made up largely of individuals who have grown up amidst a sense of powerlessness, desperation, complete frustration, and hopelessness, resulting in the belief that they have nothing to lose. If they have accepted the views of the radical fundamentalists, they also believe that glory awaits them if they give up thier lives as martyrs. Those who train and harbor them are cold, calculating, devious, and in many cases extremely intelligent. Often, they operate for hire, and several have achieved a level of infamy that has rendered them legendary, as did Carlos, “the Jackal”, Abu Nidal (mastermind of the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre), and lately, the Saudi exile, Osama bin-Laden. The difficulty with formulating a response to any act of terrorism, let alone one as bold and blatant as this, is that it is difficult to wage war on an enemy who has no face, no country, and no fear. The ability to address the root causes of the dissatisfaction which gives rise to the phenomenon of terrorism is an elusive goal at best, and even if achievable, would likely take as many generations to achieve as it has taken terrorists to develop, study, and perfect their art.

I am really amazed and awed with all of your (collective) knowledge on the middle east. I listen to Talk of the Nation every day and I must admit that for someone who thinks she is moderatly intelligent, I feel like a moron much of the time listening to these well read, well spoken people. So, I would like to print this entire page, but when I hit print,all I get is the shell, with no posts at all. Thank you, I wanted my 11 year old daughter to read it so we could discuss parts of it…I truly believe that religion is the basis for so many of these problems, and like Starlight said, these wars/disagreements have been going on forever…exactly why I was not too keen in jumping into the whole Bosnian/Serbia thing…had been going for eons, so why would you think that we could all of a sudden fix it? (arrogance??)…anyway, thank you very much for this post, it has been very informative…aimee

Nutmeg: I’d read the same about Massoud; he was the victim of a suicide bomb attack at the Northern Alliance base…a bomb hidden in a tv camera or on the body of man posing as a reporter interviewing Massoud. Although the “official” report out of Afghanistan was that Massoud only suffered mild injuries, US intelligence basically belive he was killed in the attack.

Sounds to me the Taliban are trying to buy time, and it seems they’re fast running out…between killing (if it’s true) Massoud, and Pakistan possibly turning on them…can we say “Oops!!”?

as I understand it.
When Israel was founded-the Palestinians that currently lived there were not driven out by the Israeli�s.
They were encouraged to flee by the governments of the surrounding countries and the Mullahs.
Their villages were used as hostage staging grounds against Israel.
The Arab world vowed to drive the Jews into the sea.
The governments of Jordan, Syria, et al did not invite the Palestinians refugees into their countries or offer them land.
Instead they used the refugee camps as breeding grounds for hate.

It is encouraging to see the issue treated with sucb knowledge and rationality…it just goes to show me that the people who’ve i’ve come to respect over the past year for their opinions on matters regarding horses are equally well-informed and balanced in their understanding of world history and all the issues swirling around at our feet right now…the younger people reading this board can only benefit from your contributions.

<< Are most Israelis Jews and are most Palestinians Muslims?>>

Yes Flash, as DMK points out, this is basically correct, and has made it easy for Islamic fundamentalists to intensify the conflicts between the two…However, the interests of the Palestinians do not necessarily coincide with the goals of the extremeist Muslim factions…for example, the PLO and Arafat have for quite some time relied on the USA to keep the Israelis at the table; this reliance on the USA is NOT pleasing to those who are waging the “jihad” against the West, and would like to see the West vanquished.

And, I forgot to mention that the third group that claims Jerusalem as its own are Christians…