The nutritionist's recommendation....seems extreme

Here’s another Fjord that thrives on air :rofl:

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@FjordBCRF, Yours looks much more active than mine. :joy:

Leif is 23 and believes in eating, sleeping and eating.

I wish he liked the greenguard muzzle. I just had to order third Tough 1 of the season. The greenguard had him breaking his halters to get out of.

@rubygirl1968 - these moments are few and far between!! Im always shocked when I see him active in the pasture hahaha.

Oh wow, that is no good breaking the halters to get out!! Charlie slipped his a couple times early on, but that was due to it not fitting quite right.

I’m surprised to see so much hate for the paddock paradise model. I have a very basic track set up for my small herd of 5 and it does seem to encourage more movement. The track is quite wide and the horses are all pretty chill so maybe that’s the key. But honestly, I also enjoy watching them run, which they seem to do more in the track since they have to travel further to get from point A to point B.

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IMO, it’s just a poor concept. Causes more issues than it solves. A large dry lot or a large pasture is more effective, and uses the same amount of space since the ‘inside’ part is usually wasted anyways.

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True, for some, issues notwithstanding, is the way they like to manage their horses.
One more of our human ways to try to improve on the KISS principle.

Horse’s nature is better served the more real space we can give them.
Much we do with them is confining, a trade-off with keeping them handy for us as a domesticated species we use, within our limitations of space.

The extreme is keeping horses in stalls, less extreme in stalls with runs, then with turnout, or 24/7 turnout.

With paddock paradise we revert to making larger turnout into small spaces, just more of them.
Doesn’t really make sense for a horse’s basic need of larger spaces, on the search for more movement, as is happening on such confines, antithetical to what horses space needs really are, that require as large an open area as we can offer them.
More smaller spaces doesn’t generally serve horses as well as same space as open space to move in.

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I’ve seen some track systems work quite well. Sometimes they’re easier to manage than keeping a whole lot a dry lot, and when the horse can’t just be on a full field of grass. Some are more active than others though. If it works for your horses, then do it. If not, don’t. :woman_shrugging:

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Maybe best would be to have both, pens and lanes set up so horses move thru them naturally on their way in and out, and also large areas to move at will without fences confining them.
We do have that, just the way it works for us.
Just beware pinch points, a known management concern, more so with paddock paradises.

A similar space management problem, do we want larger areas with more horses, or more smaller ones with smaller numbers, or even smaller but still ample large ones as individual paddocks?
Best to have choices, so we may accommodate whatever individual horses need, if we can.

Here is one system, internet picture, that seem to work for this stable:

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I think you just hit a group that is not a fan. Like all things horse, people have a strong opinion.
I agree with the others, if this system works for you and your horses then it is the right system for you.
Look at it like the whole debate on open stalls into a group turn-out and if that is safe or not.

I will not do something like Paddock Paradise for the same reason I will not do open stalls into a group turn out. I have one horse that is randomly irrational and likes to corner others and give them her opinion by kicking. Not safe to have small pinch points. Paddock paradise would be one constant pinch point.
Another reason it is no for me is because I clean my paddocks every day. I have no desire to push my wheel barrow thru a maze and then back out the maze to get that pile of manure that someone made in the middle. I also do not want to have to carry hay into the middle of the maze constantly.

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I have been at barns with long skinny paddocks like that and when the horses get running they can’t turn so well so there are more sliding stops. Including seeing a horse slide his way right under the fence/gate. I’m not a fan of that system. It can be less expensive in cross fencing than some alternatives as well as less labor not having to walk as far to get to the gates of some paddocks if you split the field into different geometry.

Personally I don’t love any system where there are narrow spaces involved or where horses can touch neighbors over the fence. If you want horses to touch, put them in the same field. Keep them off the fences.

I have never seen a track system in real life. When I first heard about them on websites promoting the idea they seemed like a cool idea. But the more I think about them, the more I would worry about pinch points, and also the fact that the use of electric wire on both sides in such a narrow track is not great (assuming electric because you’d never keep my mare from grass in the middle otherwise).

Also in our climate i am sure the track would be muddy unless you sunk a fortune in construction all the way around. Plus I can’t imagine mucking out in that configuration and setting hay all around.

A friend put her pasture pet horse on a track system farm recently. I will go observe when I can.

The nice thing about grass pasture is it absorbs manure over the winter. Dry lots and dry footing do not.

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I’ve always thought the track system would work on a small acreage out west.

It’s dry enough to prevent the disgusting mud I’d have here. You’re not missing out on grass either way. And if you set it up so hay is in several places along the track they will move more than just one pile by the barn.

I’d put my arena in the middle to not waste the space.

But I’ve also got two geldings that get along well. I’m sure if it were decently wide I’d have no issues (famous last words with horses).

All that being said–I live in the Midwest and it would be a disgusting muddy nightmare and my boys love running in their pastures. They are currently very upset with me keeping them in the lot (even though it’s 40s/50s and rainy.

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It’s not that extreme at all …many people feed completely forage based diets or also called the Anti Inflammatory diet …I have switched all of mine to forage based -Tb’s included and they’re in better body condition now then they’ve ever been -not one of them is a hard keeper anymore.

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I really dislike that idea of "if you’re not feeding only forage with a forage balancer, you’re feeding an “inflammatory diet”

What does that even mean? How does feeding a commercial bagged feed that’s already forage-based, low NSC, lead to inflammation?

There may be singular ingredients, like soy, or alfalfa, that are causing some inflammation to a given horse because of a true food sensitivity or outright allergy, but it’s not like all horses eating a commercial bagged feed, forage-based or not, are walking around in in inflammed state

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Since this thread has resurfaced, I will update my observations on paddock paradise track systems.

I still haven’t gone out to see where my friend keeps their horse. However, I have been hearing what seem to me an unusual number of stories about fairly serious injuries and one death from kicking (broken leg). Also it’s apparently a huge job to pick poop with a tractor.

I’ve had horses out on pasture board on and off for years with no injuries to speak of.

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That is what our vets noticed, horses just hit on each other more on long, narrower lanes.
That is horses for you, they need their space, or sooner or later someone is going to be caught and beaten here and there.
I have watched some horses in those systems and it was touch and go how some had to squeeze by others threatening them.
Wonder if they end up with more ulcers?
The only obvious advantage, they self exercise more, but at what cost?
In larger pens and pastures, at least that jostling may be more rare, horses can get away more of the time.

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What I’ve also personally noticed with some places that have tracks is they put a heck of a lot of horses in them which probably doesn’t help the issue of feeling trapped and threatened.

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Growing up I boarded at a place that had a hundred acre pasture for mares, and almost as big for geldings with about 40-50 horses on each side. Unfortunately there were a few fatalities over the years, with a few horses that had to be PTS after getting kicked.
Also TB stallions seems to have a surprising number of “pasture injury” deaths despite being out alone.
I’ve never had any experience with track systems, there aren’t any in this area that I’m aware of so no opinion on that, I suppose it depends on the execution and horses. But I think horses are just good at finding ways to get hurt!

True, horses are good at getting hurt living in the world humans manage them in …

… and humans are good at micromanaging best they can, as the humans they are.

Hard to get it right, unless you are half horse yourself and understand horse talk.
Then is painful to see some of what we do with and to horses. :frowning:

I understand the concern with narrow lanes in the track system. I used very wide lanes with full pasture at either end. I took it down when we had a new, very herd bound mare arrive. She would panic if she ended up on the track alone and couldn’t figure out how to get back to the other horses. The track was short and simple, but she would just go into a blind panic sometimes.

I set it up primarily for one horse, who has now moved out. It worked really well for him and I would use it again, but not with more than a few horses because I agree that they need a lot of space to sort each other out.