The *Real* Clinton Anderson (profanity)

[Belmont]

He also had an accountant that stole a lot of money from him. My husband constantly reminded me about that when we were looking for a new accountant. He still has a large following. There are plenty of people that would send horses to him if they could, even if he speaks like this on his podcast, because people like that about him. That he is “brutally honest and not a bullshitter”.

He talks often on his podcast and in person about how he doesn’t have to train horses anymore and can say what he wants because he makes enough money now.

[endlessclimb]

I’ve seen people try his training on hot, anxious thoroughbreds. The results were exactly what you might think - not productive, not good.

[Spudsmyguy]

An acquaintance of mine was one of those camp followers. She was first a devotee of John Lyons then Dennis Reis, then someone else and on and on. Every word out of their mouths was pearls of wisdom that she would follow to the letter to the point where everyone else was wrong for not following her chosen trainer of the moment method. She followed these celebrity trainers up and down the west coast and appeared at every clinic. I don’t think she ever “slept” with any but her level of devotion was just crazy.

[Mosey_2003]

I never minded John Lyons much, I didn’t do any deep dives but he seemed, on a cursory level at least, to be pretty competent and not too out-there. CA and Parelli really started bringing the “flashy” and gimmicky stuff that caught a lot of attention.

[Aussie_2020]

I always wonder about the personalities of the people that think trainers like CA are good because “he tells it like it is”. Of course within that telling is a whole lot of nasty.

Quiet and kind is what I look for in a trainer. Someone that tries to figure out the problem rather than someone that punishes.

[Mosey_2003]

@Aussie_2020

I always wonder about the personalities of the people that think trainers like CA are good because “he tells it like it is”. Of course within that telling is a whole lot of nasty.

They’re bullies, I’d reckon. They like and recognize their own kind and it makes them feel better to have someone they can be bullies with because the rest of us tend to shun that behavior.

[Djones]

@Mosey_2003

I never minded John Lyons much, I didn’t do any deep dives but he seemed, on a cursory level at least, to be pretty competent and not too out-there. CA and Parelli really started bringing the “flashy” and gimmicky stuff that caught a lot of attention.

I saw John back in like 1991 or so, he did a thing in Montgomery, Alabama. It was cold! Someone brought a cute dun colt to be started. The horse was pushy and a bit spoiled. I recall John was addressing the audience and the bored colt came up behind him and chested him a little…John just pivoted and smacked him in the chest with his coiled lariat. The horse was stunned, and he backed off and just had this WTH look on his face. The whole thing was low drama, low key, and very instructive. He explained he wasn’t doing much bridleless stuff anymore on zip b/c the horse resented it, he could relax and respond to neck reining and rein shifts and not throw away the whole front end in terms of communication.

[Aussie_2020]

That is so very interesting about the bridleless issue. I never thought of it in that way. And he certainly was listening to his horse and allowing the horse to have input.

[Ajierene]

John Lyons was my first introduction to anything “Natural Horsemanship” and my big take aways from him are:

Do the same thing at least 5 times (ie: practicing mounting, get on bottom step and off 5 times before getting on next step up)
Do same thing on both sides
Do things incrementally - like really break them down to step by step
“release the pressure” - step away from horse from time to time to give them a break from training
look for relaxation - when you release pressure, horse should look at you and “licking and chewing” (I don’t always look for the licking and chewing but there is a difference in willingness with a horse that looks to you when you release pressure and one that doesn’t).

Following the above is how I usually train and it works great…an example:

Friends got a Tennessee Walker that would just start WALKING off as soon as you put your foot in the stirrup and would not stand at the mounting block. So, took him in the round pen one day and lined him to the mounting block. Soon as his feet stopped moving, we went for a walk around the roundpen and back - 5-10 times each side and he started to relax. When I could have him stand to a count of 10 in my head on each side, we moved to the next step.

Next, I stood him up and placed the mounting block. 1 second duration, take away mounting block and step back - again repeat both sides until relaxed.

Next step was stepping on bottom step, he was starting to get pretty relaxed but I still forced myself to do at least 5 times each side. I would also occasionally just step back and tell him he was a good boy.

All the way up, slowly, to mounting - he stood like a rock and we mounted/dismounted each side multiple times.

It took all of 20 minutes and was a focus of the day and that horse never moved off from the mounting block until asked again.

I have looked at other Natural Horsemanship trainers and to me, none have measured up to John Lyons mostly because he was such an advocate of “slow but steady” and “pay attention to your horse”.

[RMJacobs]

I went to a John Lyons symposium years ago. I thought he was pretty down to earth. He spent the entire break getting in depth with me on a question I’d asked him about one of my horses. I really appreciated his advice; it made sense to me.

[RhythmNCruise]

I like John Lyons. He seems to have a wealth of common sense and a solid understanding of horses. He also knows how to communicate his knowledge to others, which is important in a clinician.

I saw Monty Roberts many years ago. It was a fun evening, nothing earth-shattering, but most of what he did made sense.

I saw Pat Parelli too. Meh. Too much of a “show” and advertisement for his goofy gear (carrot stick and what-not).

I have never gotten to see Buck Brannaman in real life, but I adored watching Buck and think he is the real deal. He has the talent and understanding of horses that Anderson lacks, so Brannaman can train without brutality. He’s a straight shooter and doesn’t suffer fools, but he isn’t a vulgar jackass about it. He seems like a genuinely gifted horseman and a good teacher (to horses and humans).

I really like Steve Young on Youtube as well. He has studied these guys like Ray Hunt and the other legit Western trainers and it shows. He’s so consistent in his methods and they make sense.

I also have enjoyed reading Mark Rashid’s books, though I’ve never actually seen him (that I recall) working with a horse. I just remember reading his books and finding them interesting and sensible.

[Hidden_Oak]

Saw Monty probably 20 years ago, not impressed.
Met a friend and her friends at a Parelli thing probably 15 years ago. (never a fan myself) They were less then impressed with my comment to the effect of, If it’s natural horsemanship, why does he have so much crap to sell. This was at the Ohio State Fairgrounds (home of QH congress) maybe half the arena was for working the horses, but the other half was well crap for sale.

[Paint_Party]

@RhythmNCruise

I saw Pat Parelli too. Meh. Too much of a “show” and advertisement for his goofy gear (carrot stick and what-not).

I figured he’d run out of ideas for goofy gear when I walked by his booth-- I mean “marketplace”-- one year at Equine Affaire and he was selling official Parelli boot socks.

[Djones]

Pat cut in the food line at the horse fair here a few years back. He wanted to shake everyone’s hand. I wanted no part of it but he’s in.your.face like that. Baby soft hands. Newborn baby. Like it skeeved me out that a horse-guy had hands like that. So gross.

[Curly_Feather]

@RhythmNCruise

I really like Steve Young on Youtube as well. He has studied these guys like Ray Hunt and the other legit Western trainers and it shows. He’s so consistent in his methods and they make sense.

I adore Steve Young. He is just so clear and calm in his communication with horses. They can’t help but to do the right thing.

[BrownDerby]

Not so much now (Pat turned 71 yesterday) but he used to appear like he’d had a lot of work done in the Botox department. Or maybe it was Linda’s miracle cosmetics line working its magik…

[Obsidian_Fire]

I always liked John Lyons too. I credit his wisdom for getting me past a big funk in my riding many years back.
Mark Rashid, love his books. Have them all. Have never seen him in person but have heard from people who have he’s just like his books.
I’ve read the first Buck book, saw the movie, and loosely follow whatever pops up in FB.

Some of these guys truly are the ‘real deal’.

[Spudsmyguy]

@RhythmNCruise

I have never gotten to see Buck Brannaman in real life, but I adored watching Buck and think he is the real deal. He has the talent and understanding of horses that Anderson lacks, so Brannaman can train without brutality. He’s a straight shooter and doesn’t suffer fools, but he isn’t a vulgar jackass about it. He seems like a genuinely gifted horseman and a good teacher (to horses and humans).

I attended a Buck clinic some years ago. It was very interesting and everyone seemed to be having a good time and got something out of it. He was very quiet and unrushed, rode one owner’s horse to give it some intense training and the horse came out of it with more understanding of what was being asked, relaxed and calm.

[Lunabear1988]

This made me laugh LOL. I totally can see that and it would weird me out too.

[Lunabear1988]

I enjoy Buck a lot. Occasionally work with someone that’s trained in his methods (but she’s also a USDF Silver Medalist.)

I do go to one of his clinics and I’m not kidding, he almost had his own horse, that he brought, flip over the fence. As in we were sitting right there and my friend and I got up in case a horse landed on us! Thankfully it didn’t happen but I didn’t love that. It was something about backing the horse up, and she literally wasn’t moving a specific leg fast enough for him. So he kept backing her up the whole length of this GIANT indoor arena.

I remember thinking that the horse just really don’t understand or maybe something was wrong and she couldn’t back up the way he wanted her to. He had said that he had pulled her out the past year after a few years off…

The rest of the clinic was fine and when he worked with the other horses it was fine. It wasn’t like he was out of control or anything but I just felt like he was being unfair to the horse in that instance.

I always bring this up not to talk trash on him but just to reiterate then everybody’s human. I still use some of his methods and I still think he’s got incredible timing and knowledge. But I still think he made a mistake that day and I don’t even understand what he was really going for… It seems like the damage it might have caused the horse outweighed the benefit…

I’m sorry guys I used talk to text a lot LOL