The Triple Crown Races 2019

[Larksmom]

I have lived in Missouri a good while, and I remember something decades ago in overheard conversations, newspapers, etc., about a game where Kansas City played St. Louis in baseball. Big topic, agitated a lot of people, though not me, and in the opinion of most I overheard, the umpire blew it. People were mad. People said their team had been robbed. This was, in this neck of the woods, a BIG deal, a disgrace, a dark day in sports, etc., etc., insert the standard phrases.

I am reeling at that! DT, you are talking about the '85 World Series! And yes, there was a blown call, and yes, it cost St. Louis the game, and forced a seventh game, and yes the Royals (yay) DID romp home something like 11-0. You, I am sure are old enough to remember that yes? A Missouri resident? Even if you didn’t follow baseball, and I know you are down in the southern part, but you surely could not escape that hoopla!
And then just this year the big deal with the Saints in a playoff game in football. Now I do not follow football much at all, but even I heard about this. A referee made a terrible call and it cost the Saints the game. People were probably more angry about that as I think more people follow football than they do racing. But those decisions stand.

[TheMoo]

The only thing I have seen go to court in professional sports is suspensions. I have never seen a call that cost the game, or a player “DQ’d” mid game go this far.

[AffirmedHope]

@Larksmom

I have lived in Missouri a good while, and I remember something decades ago in overheard conversations, newspapers, etc., about a game where Kansas City played St. Louis in baseball. Big topic, agitated a lot of people, though not me, and in the opinion of most I overheard, the umpire blew it. People were mad. People said their team had been robbed. This was, in this neck of the woods, a BIG deal, a disgrace, a dark day in sports, etc., etc., insert the standard phrases.

I am reeling at that! DT, you are talking about the '85 World Series! And yes, there was a blown call, and yes, it cost St. Louis the game, and forced a seventh game, and yes the Royals (yay) DID romp home something like 11-0. You, I am sure are old enough to remember that yes? A Missouri resident? Even if you didn’t follow baseball, and I know you are down in the southern part, but you surely could not escape that hoopla!
And then just this year the big deal with the Saints in a playoff game in football. Now I do not follow football much at all, but even I heard about this. A referee made a terrible call and it cost the Saints the game. People were probably more angry about that as I think more people follow football than they do racing. But those decisions stand.

As a result of that totally blown ref call in the Saint’s game, the NFL now allows teams to challenge pass interference calls (or lack there of) during the game. If the challenge is unsubstantiated they lose a timeout as with when calls on plays are challenged and don’t stand.

[Pronzini]

In all probability, the court will dismiss this indicating that it has no standing to adjudicate a sport’s rules when the participants explicitly agreed to abide by the steward’s rulings and the stewards actually ruled which is the Due process. Even the most ardent Maximum Security advocate isn’t claiming that the stewards didn’t consider its ruling. The stewards took 22 minutes to consider the ruling–the Wests are simply saying they came to the wrong conclusion. That is where I predict a court won’t go and shouldn’t.

Can you imagine the precedent? Someone always doesn’t like what the umpire, referee, steward, or placing judge decides. There is usually one howler in every national championship. Are they all going to end up in court?

I think an analogy the court might appreciate is in private arbitration. Many times in litigation, the parties agree to a private arbitrator and take the dispute outside the court system to save money and time. They then agree to the rules of the private arbitration forum. Once that happens, an aggrieved party can’t appeal the decision absent overt bias or fraud–which is a tremendous burden to overcome.

The Wests need to accept the decision gracefully and get their revenge in the time honored sportsman manner. They need to put that horse back on the track and beat the stuffings out of all the other contenders. This is just making them look small and frankly potentially hurting their horse’s second career because perception rules stallion selection. Their horse’s class needs to overcome their lack of class IMO.

[dressagetraks]

Yeah, it was in the 80s, I think. Long time ago. As stated, I don’t follow baseball, but I couldn’t have missed this. People were MAD about that game.

Back to horse racing, the owner I feel sorriest for this year has to be Rick Porter. But he and Mandella handled their disappointment with class.

Turning to Saturday’s Preakness, I always pick three horses in TC races to root for. This Saturday, I’m choosing War of Will, Alwaysmining, and Owendale. Hope it’s a great race.

[SnicklefritzG]

I think whoever gave MS’s jockey a 15 day suspension (rather than 3-5) is the entity acting without class. The heavy suspension was clearly designed to strike back and send a message, not to act within the boundary of what’s considered normal (comparing other recent suspensions)

@Pronzini

In all probability, the court will dismiss this indicating that it has no standing to adjudicate a sport’s rules when the participants explicitly agreed to abide by the steward’s rulings and the stewards actually ruled which is the Due process. Even the most ardent Maximum Security advocate isn’t claiming that the stewards didn’t consider its ruling. The stewards took 22 minutes to consider the ruling–the Wests are simply saying they came to the wrong conclusion. That is where I predict a court won’t go and shouldn’t.

Can you imagine the precedent? Someone always doesn’t like what the umpire, referee, steward, or placing judge decides. There is usually one howler in every national championship. Are they all going to end up in court?

I think an analogy the court might appreciate is in private arbitration. Many times in litigation, the parties agree to a private arbitrator and take the dispute outside the court system to save money and time. They then agree to the rules of the private arbitration forum. Once that happens, an aggrieved party can’t appeal the decision absent overt bias or fraud–which is a tremendous burden to overcome.

The Wests need to accept the decision gracefully and get their revenge in the time honored sportsman manner. They need to put that horse back on the track and beat the stuffings out of all the other contenders. This is just making them look small and frankly potentially hurting their horse’s second career because perception rules stallion selection. Their horse’s class needs to overcome their lack of class IMO.

[Sparrowette]

@Pronzini

(…) The Wests need to accept the decision gracefully and get their revenge in the time honored sportsman manner. They need to put that horse back on the track and beat the stuffings out of all the other contenders. This is just making them look small and frankly potentially hurting their horse’s second career because perception rules stallion selection. Their horse’s class needs to overcome their lack of class IMO.

^^^ Yes to this.

As Bob Baffert said, sometimes you need to “Take your ass-kickings with dignity.” The Wests need to listen to Bob.

[LaurieB]

@Sparrowette

^^^ Yes to this.

As Bob Baffert said, sometimes you need to “Take your ass-kickings with dignity.” The Wests need to listen to Bob.

Yes.

Although ironically when Baffert said that, he was referring to the jockeys who initiated the inquiry that led the MS being taken down. :lol:

[Rallycairn]

@SnicklefritzG

I think whoever gave MS’s jockey a 15 day suspension (rather than 3-5) is the entity acting without class. The heavy suspension was clearly designed to strike back and send a message, not to act within the boundary of what’s considered normal (comparing other recent suspensions)

YES. Exactly. That is far less graceful and far more lacking in dignity, fairness, sportsmanship, class, etc. than the Wests’ behaviors. By far.

[nelson]

I could not agree more with everyone who said Saez got a raw deal. His suspension is a travesty, in my opinion. The reason for the suspension was noted as “Failure to control his mount and make the proper effort to maintain a straight course.” What a bunch of nonsense. I wonder how many of the people involved in the decision have been on a horse spooking at a dead gallop? It’s clear to me from watching every video I could find that MS just spooked, plain and simple. Did MS interfere with other horses making a DQ necessary? Yes, I think so. That being said, I think the suspension of Saez is going way too far, and doesn’t recognize the fact that horses are not robots. A spooking horse is going to go somewhere - to the side, backwards, up, whatever. You can do your best to react quickly and get them back on course (which Saez did), but at that speed there’s no way you’re going to be able to instantaneously stop them from going the direction they first choose. It definitely seems like the suspension was an unnecessary effort to shore up the DQ decision.

On to the Preakness! Who does everybody like? I love Bourbon War - hoping he has a big race.

[ASB_Stars]

My opinion on Saez’s suspension is that it is a piece of the commission’s foundation in the upcoming case defending against the Wests. You have to make Saezs actions especially egregious to substantiate their decision.

[SnicklefritzG]

Ding ding ding!!!

thats it. They aren’t acting in the best interest of racing. The suspension is to cover their —- in light of the upcoming lawsuit.

i hope this gives the west’s more action against them.

@ASB Stars

My opinion on Saez’s suspension is that it is a piece of the commission’s foundation in the upcoming case defending against the Wests. You have to make Saezs actions especially egregious to substantiate their decision.

[skydy]

@ASB Stars

My opinion on Saez’s suspension is that it is a piece of the commission’s foundation in the upcoming case defending against the Wests. You have to make Saezs actions especially egregious to substantiate their decision.

I suppose the West’s attorneys can counter that, with videos of other interference resulting in the jockeys suspension and compare the infractions with the penalties.

[Nestor]

Just one lawyer’s thoughts here, but the difference between filing suit over an NFL/NBA/MLB game and the Derby is that the decision maker for the Derby is a state agency and its employees, so there are some protections in law that don’t exist for major league sports (which I believe are presided over by private organizations, so employment law governs more than anything).

I still think it’s wild to file a lawsuit about this, but… I’ll certainly be following along.

[Where_sMyWhite]

But, to Nestor’s point (and I am certainly no attorney), some of the “decisions” made by professional sports are sometimes challenged and changed (depending on what the actual infraction is) by the different sports players’ unions.

How often have I seen a decision to “penalize” a player for some activity that is then reduced when challenged by the union.

[skydy]

OP ed by an attorney; http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/op-ed-derby-lawsuit-precedent-says-no-chance/

[SnicklefritzG]

I laughed when I saw who that attorney has represented in the past :lol::no:

@skydy

OP ed by an attorney; http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/op-ed-derby-lawsuit-precedent-says-no-chance/

[clint]

@SnicklefritzG

I laughed when I saw who that attorney has represented in the past :lol::no:

He very well qualified to express an opinion. Not sure what you are laughing at.

[Maythehorsebewithme]

I like Anothertwistafate in the Preakness. Seems pretty consistent, has run some good times, well bred.

[SnicklefritzG]

Go back and read the article…then take into account the negative tone and it should be no surprise to you

@clint

He very well qualified to express an opinion. Not sure what you are laughing at.