The WEIGHT issue

[js]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
[B]Okay, so what are the names and postal addresses/email addresses for the appropriate committee members? Is there someone who can form a “guide” letter for us to use? Shall we bombard them with copies of this and the other thread mentioned?

I will do my part.

Side note to JRG: I recently was home sick on the day ESPN2 aired a USET Reining Qualifying competition on the “America’s Horse” program. The one thing I noticed was that most of these highly qualified and highly respected riders were either pushing 200 lbs or pushing 6’ and above - nary a skinny-minnie in the bunch. They were riding quarter horses that were for the most part under 16 hands and under 1000 lbs. Under the scenario of “A horse should only carry a portion of its own body weight”, how does this compare to teenage girls ave under 5’7" and ave under 140 lbs riding 16+ hand, 1000+ lb Tb’s and Warmbloods? If you could look up this website, I would really be interested in viewing it.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I show with the AQHA, and if you look at the majority of the females riders (especially the adults) they are a size 3 or smaller (of course not all, but a vast majority) especially in the pleasure classes. Sorry, but thin is in - in the western world too (at least for the women, doesn’t seem to affect the men as much). I’ve seen plenty of wonderful heavy riders passed over for thin riders of less ability. Guess this attitude carries through every discipline.

[JumpFoxy2000]

Okay,I’ve already posted here but I need to make one thing clear and so to those of you who may be offended,I’m sorry.
The judges have no right to tell people that they need to lose weight, but it is important to see that some riders ARE overweight.In most cases being overweight can or will make your heart work harder and make it difficult to breathe.Now then,you want to sit on a horse,okay,make that a summer show and you have a dangerous situation.
It’s not the judges nor the trainers place to tell the rider that their fat,but it is up to their friends and family to advise them to watch their weight(I do not mean developing an eating disorder).
And yes sometimes to a horse,it makes a difference between a rider that is 110lbs and a rider that is 160lbs.But that also depends on the horse(size,build,etc.).
I am in no ways trying to say that it is good for people making comments about a person’s weight, but I am saying that no one should be able to become too much OVER-weight.Again this depends on the person(age,height,build, etc.)
And again please don’t tak this the wrong way.
-Leslie
P.S.-I am not skinny(5’4" 150lbs,but I carry it well )

[WHOA]

Hmmm…ok. The 14 and 15 year-olds who are posting on this thread and saying that they have no choice but to starve themselves for ribbons are going to give me nightmares. You guys are just wrong. I’m 6’2" and a rock-solid 180 lbs, and I win or pin a pretty good percentage of the time (not just at local shows, but at A shows and at IHSA shows where I’ve drawn horses that made me look like a giant). I’ve ridden with girls who are not extremely slim who win every time they go in the ring. Yes, you will run into judges (lots of them) who have unreasonable standards about riders’ sizes. You’ll also run into lots of judges who don’t pin grays or paints, you’ll run into plenty of judges who’ll pin a fancy horse who missed his changes over a homely one who puts in a perfect trip. Skipping your meals won’t win you blue ribbons at every show. Instead, do something productive; go eat a turkey sandwich and then ride without stirrups for a while.

Oh, and those of you who think carrying too much weight is bad for the horses, give me a break. My TB gelding goes great for me and my trainer most of the time, but has eaten more than one light-weight rider for breakfast.

VTrider and Sea Urchin, will this work as a post that people can flame me over?

[KitBC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woodbern:
Ah … to be 19, tall and slim … and to know it all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a pretty sensitive topic already without throwing more juice on top. I like reading a lot of different opinions, whether they come from a slim 19-year old or a heavy 40-year old mother of 3.

[Regalmeans]

Thank you Lori, like everyone else who has shared on this thread ou have inspired me - you are all so strong for what you have overcome and I admire you. I have been there and I know the feeling - hunger so bad it eats you from inside b/c you are hungry not just for food but for validation and acceptance.

For me there are still good days and bad days - but I was in one hell of ugly place 3 years ago and I’m not going back there no matter what - screw the judge or trainer who tells me to lose weight - from here out it’s my way at my weight or not at all. It’s all about you - you and your health and your sanity - in the end no one else’s thoughts really matter. You have to choose on your own.

[Coreene]

I know lots of friends who won’t ride in a George Morris or Robert Dover clinic because it is a big waste of money to spend a few hundred bucks to have insults hurled at them.

I met a gal who now rides with an unnamed California trainer. She is a brilliant rider. She also has a physical problem which requires her to take prednisone each day. When she was back East training with Dover, he made her go to the gym for FIVE HOURS EACH DAY because he refused to believe that it was “just the prednisone.”

I’m very tall and wear a women’s size 18. Although I wouldn’t by choice sport myself in a swimsuit in front of an audience, I’ve never had a problem otherwise. And if some trainer, no matter who they are, think that it is appropriate for them to slam my body type in a clinic, it is at that moment that the clinic ends for me and I get a refund.

Maybe the next George and Robert victims should remind them that their vulgar comments, when said over a microphone in front of other participants and onlookers, constitutes slander. And you’d better believe that I would go through with the threat.

[stop4]

Maybe in a perfect world, you wouldn’t have to be the thinnest one to win but that is the way that it is. So it is no wonder that there are so many riders that have eating disorders (myself and some of my freinds included) It’s really hard to be 14 or 15 and know that what it taked to win is not just being smart and in shape, sometimes it takes more sacrafice.

If you go to any big hunter show and look at all the people who won classes, I can bet you almost anything that the riders winning the big classes are all thin. At local shows and smaller divisions the judging might not be any different for heavy riders but you would be hard pressed to find an even slightly heavy girl winning a competitive hunter class and that is the way it is.

[Louise]

Duffy, you go girl. This weight thing permiates our entire society. Though the focus on the problem has been, and rightly so, on the young, the problems that weight perceptions cause contnue well into adulthood. As I wrote on another thread, right now you would look at me and say, whew, fat lady. And I don’t deny it. I am carrying too much weight. Not quite as much as I was a couple of weeks ago, because I’m starting to take it off slowly and safely, but that is because I am concerned about my future health, not so much because of the way I look.

Yet, I’m a strong and healthy individual. One of things that I’m doing is walking more, with a neighbor who also wants to get more into shape. On the way home, we have to climb a steep hill. She is 10 years younger and not carrying nearly the weight I am AND she walks her big dog, who likes to pull her along. When we get to the top of the hill, she is the one who is puffing and wheezing, I am fine.

The problem is, that though I know all this and mostly believe it, there are times when I get so discouraged. I have a very pretty Mom, who has always been focused on looks. As a fat kid, there was always the sense that I was disappointing her by not living up to her idea of what good looks are. Even today, she’ll occasionally mention how much better I would look if I were thinner. Today, as an adult, I am much more able to cope with that kind of an attitude, though it still hurts, but I remember how I felt when I was younger and it makes me so sad to think of all the youngsters who are going through the same thing.

I think that it was Jumphigh83 who said that you have no idea of what the prejudice is like until you walk a mile in our shoes. She was so right! Until we all start judging people for who we are, not what we look like, we will all be poorer.

So, tell me where to write and I’ll most certainly write. It is unfair and so terribly damaging for judges to make the kind of comments this one made. S/he and others must be made aware of the damage that they are causing.

[JRG]

I agree that no amount of suggestion will work if the person does not see the problem.

For those that think your weight doesn’t affect the way your horse performs here is two areas to look at,
Equine Vet. Journal, supplement 18, and On To Atlanta 96. The later has alot of great publications in it that go into explaining alot of exterior effects on horses.

Being as fit as you can be will only help you with what you are trying to accomplish with your horse.

[RolexH]

Denna,

I was at the same horse show and not only did the judge tell the rider, you speak of, that she was overwieght but another girl that she pinned first! This girl was MAYBE 5’1", and did have a little weight problem but flawless equitation… she told her(in front of a lot of riders) that if she wanted to be competetive, she needed to diet. I qoute,“I hope I see less of you next year.” I was appalled

I am almost 6 feet tall I wear a size eleven shoe, I am no littlw woman . Yeah college has taken a toll on my figure but I am not a huge beast. I have had a huge difference in my placings due to the weight gain. I am just of a strong rider as I was when I was thinner, but I am not winning everything. I have gone from NEVER I repeat NEVER getting below a first in a flat class during an entire circuit to pinning thirds and fourths. I think it is the weight. I just dont fit the “mold”.

I think we need to look at postion NOT weight. That is ridicoulus and painful. I have been very hurt by this steriotype. I have lost a lot of self confidence due to it and it needs to change! Does anyone have any other comments…sorry I babble. Rolex

[Regalmeans]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cozmo:
I recently had a very bad experience at a horse show involving my weight. I’m 5ft 8in, I weigh 120 adn I wear a size 2. Here’s my story- I was at a horse show last weekend and I was really nervous. I had just shown and I was waiting for my score (it was a WCHR horse show). The next person was finished and my score had still not been announced. I’m trying to qualify for Devon, and I needed first place points really badly. I asked a trainer (who is also friend) if they heard my score. Just then I heard it - I had gotten an 89. I won the class, and when I was walking out of the jog, I overheard a trainer telling my trainer what a talented rider I would be if I lost ten pounds. They were both agreeing how much more I would win. Later I won the AHSA medal. The judge came up to my trainer after the horse show and told her I should get an eq horse and that I should be doing the eq too, b/c I shouldn’t waist my “body”. The judge also said if I was planning on going to Devon and do the eq I should go on a diet before I went! I don’t get it! I didn’t think I was fat before last weekend! Now, every time I look at food, I just wasnt to vomit b/c I think the only way I’ll win is if I llose weight!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You so DO NOT need to lose weight! I’m 5’5 and 115 (good day)- 120 (bad day) and 1/2 the people I know think I’m anorexic (yeah, whatever). Trust me you don’t need to lose weight! But if you really think you do see a doctor and ask them - and then do things like workout more (running, biking) or eating carrots instead of junk food or chicken for red meat - DO NOT throw up to lose the weight!

And trust me - these people are wrong! furthermore if you never ‘felt fat’ before last weekend obviously you weren’t - you just need to be able to laugh it off. At shows people will always say nasty things - I’ve had people say my horse was lame and a horrid mover and I was fat and a bad rider just b/c they ere jealous that I beat them!

Good luck - and please don’t let these people make you doubt yourself - if you’re riding well, and happy (and winning ) and all you’re doing it right and there is no need to make yourself sick over it!

Sarah

[Louise]

Hallie,

I am so glad that there are judges like you out there. Thank you for being a fair and caring person. Can we clone you?

Seriously, I think that you have hit the nail on the head when you said that it is the judges business to judge the riding that he/she sees, not what could be better “if”.

[This message has been edited by LOUISE (edited 04-03-2000).]

[satin]

Yes, CTT, thank you for sharing your story. I have admired you since I first heard about you from Portia, and my admiration has only grown.

[loopdeedoopdey]

I myself am a very skinny person. I eat more than enough for my age, it’s just my metabolism. I am 15 years old, 5’3 and 85 pounds- the ideal EQ figure, tall and skinny. However, I don’t like it very much. It makes me feel pretty low when another rider, obviously better and more secure than me, pins below me in an equitation class simply because she weights 30 pounds more. If I’m going to pin well, great, but I want it to be because I’m riding well, not because my bones stick out.
I’ve had nonriding people stare at me and ask if I’m anorexic, if I ever eat, etc. I’ve had people tease me, sometimes in fun sometimes not. Even my best friend calls me string bean. However, horse people are different. They are forever telling me how they’d die to look like me etc. Yeah, they’ll die to look like me because some people just can’t be naturally thin, they have to KILL themselves. Is it worth it? No. So why? Because of the George Morrises out there who take 6 year old pony riders and tell them they’re too fat. That pony rider’s going to grow up and starve herself so that the Georges will pin her and admire her bones- never mind that when the class is over, she goes into her horse’s stall and cries because she still needs to lose- so she thinks- 5 pounds. When she loses five pounds she still needs to lose 3 pounds. It’s sick. I agree that someone needs to do something about the judges that are looking at your weight and not your riding, because they’re going to do serious damage to the sport we love.

[JrLeagueGoddess]

This whole “you’ve got to be skinny to win” thing is horrid…

Something NEEDS to be done in this sport…

WHAT can WE do?

I see a bad, bad trend here, and personally it scares me.

I can tell you right now,if I ever had a child…she wouldn’t be showing in the AHSA…
where (apparently)you have to be a minute away from a heart attack (caused by anorexia) to pin.

CTT thanks…you really are a great person!( and your posts are getting VERY easy to read!)

[Coreene]

I think it’s a double whammy for those of us who are “strapping gals” and have no problem with it to be reminded that some insensitive clods do.

[Weatherford]

These are the other weight posts:
Weight IV LetÂ’s Act - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001738.html
Weight I - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001146.html
Weight II - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001206.html
Weight III - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001245.html
Weight Essay - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001457.html

[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 06-02-2000).]

[showrider]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dennaj:
[B]This weekend at one of our collegiate horse shows, one of my students had to ride off against another of my students for the reserve highscore rider award. She did a beautiful job (she is a novice rider) and came really close to beating my open rider who is one of the best in the region. She asked me what she did wrong and I told her that she looked really great and with a little more mileage she would do even better.

For those of you who dont know, at college shows the riders are allowed to ask the judge questions about their ride after the show. So my happy little novice rider goes meandering over to the judge to ask her opinion on what to work on. The judges reply was that she had nice equitation but she would never win seriously unless she lost 5 pounds.

This was a FEMALE, large R judge. This is college riding, and not the maclay finals. The kid was crushed beyond belief. This is NOT a fat rider, as a matter of fact I would not even call her overweight. She is a big boned girl, almost 6 feet tall, who is of average to below average weight.

As a coach and teacher, I was seriously affronted. It may be that the judge meant well, but since she is a woman (we are ALL obsessive about our weight), you would think that she would have been a little more sensitive. I am not saying that it is any less offensive coming from a man, but men deal with completly different body type issues than women do. I personally know of 3 boy riders in our area in the last 10 years who won lots of medal classes and they were what I would classify as overweight, and yet, I dont think I ever heard anyone make a comment about how they needed to lose a few pounds.

If anyone else has visited the A shows in the past few years, they have seen several skeletal riders. I made a comment to a very well known trainer about one girl and he said, Oh, well, we dont talk about the problem. I was shocked. Did everyone feel that if they ignored the problem then it would just go away. Or was it guilt at having started the problem in the first place.

When is the last time that you ever heard a person who had to diet themselves to the bone to stay thin, telling someone that they needed to lose weight. Hooray for you if you are naturally thin, but dont destroy someones self esteem, because you were lucky enough to have “thin genes”.

I know that we have created equitation, with the tall thin rider in mind, but are we willing to sacrifice, what could be a childs life to an equitation championship. What is wrong with people that they are unable to accept people as they are.

All our riders are very physically fit, and if I get a rider that is a bit out of shape, or large, we encourage them to join us in 4 weekly workout sessions to get in shape. Wouldnt it have been more appropriate for the judge to have said that she felt the other rider was more experienced and perhaps a tad more physically fit, and encouraged the rider to run or work out to become more fit. Calling someone fat, never solved any problems with riding. I feel it only creates more.

Sorry this is so long. Please reply with your experiences and opinions.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am very upset with people that think that “heavy"people have no business on horses. I am heavy. After all, I have 3 small kids. People like George Morris open state that heavy people should not ride horses at all. I have news for jeks like that…there are alot more of use less than perfect weight people riding than the so called perfect sized riders.
I have owned my mare for 15 years now. I started with her when I was a size 6, and yes we did go up to the “big Equi”. We also did the open hunters at all the “A” shows. Now that she is older, and so am I, I only do the small 2’6” stuff. It has NOTHING to do with my size.
I really don’t care what people think of my weight right now. I will lose it but only when I want to. The unfortunet part is that I know that I have lost alot because of it. The sadest part is that I don;t do the Equitation because of my weight. I only do hunters, but still my mare doesn’t get pinned.
Just because I am not a size 6, doesn;t mean that I can’t ride. I might not look pretty like the equi kids do, but I am extremely effective. And for those who are laughing at this saying that I put my weight into it…you are WRONG. I can get on most anything and ride it…and ride it well. Better than any “perfect” person that is taught to sit there and look pretty.

[VTrider]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WHOA!:
VTrider and Sea Urchin, will this work as a post that people can flame me over? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where is Clemson Rider…We will whip out our favorite Sir Mix A Lot song…I like big butts and I can not lie…

Anyhow…I have a big butt and big boobs and I don’t care…I am 5’8" and 150# and damn proud of the Southern Cooking I was raised on…

But seriously…WHOA looks so pretty on a horse…as soon as I find a pix of her riding…I will scan it and share it with the rest of y’all - Sea Urchin can vouch for her riding as well. When I was on the IHSA team…our best riders weren’t the nasty skinny ones…The last time I checked…guy judges liked big boobs…LOL!!!

[Beans]

Ah yes I second that comment to be 19, slim and know it all!!! Get ready for gravity, age and hormonal changes my dear…try as we all do our bodies do change and trying to keep your 19 yo slim body won’t be as easy as you might think. I can remember skipping lunch for just a few days and easily dropping 5 pounds - now at 49 I could skip lunch forever and maybe lose 3!!!

As far as the comments about heart stress and weight…well let’s not practice medicine here without a license, because many people who have dropped dead of a heart attack did so in prime weight and condition as top athletes because of genetic heart problems. Also severely underweight individuals - primarily female often have cardiac arrest due to the fact that their bodies have no fat to burn so they start burning up muscle tissue - i.e. the heart muscle.

I feel sorry for the people who can’t dis-associate the rider’s body type and size from the overall impression of the ride. I know of plenty of body slim riders who are just plain distracting when they ride - they seem to need to be “noticed” (especially in Dressage) and I find myself looking at them instead of the ride. I personally feel the best riders are the ones that just aren’t even noticeable - regardless of body size - that work so completely with the horse that they just blend into the whole picture.

I think the Florida Team should identify this judge who made the comment. Judges who make such comments should lose their judging privileges and if they don’t - let the market dictate. If horsepeople know they are biased well - DON’T HIRE THEM!!! When they don’t get any work - well that solves the problem.

It’s bad enough we have some judges who have bias about certain breeds of horses - AND OPENLY. My niece has a wonderful pinto pony, correct, great mover and wonderful jumper. Some judges won’t pin anything but bays and grays in the hunter ring and don’t seem to care who knows it! What does this teach kids who ride? The issue isn’t the color of the horse or breed - it’s how well they went and carried their rider. We’ve gotten so far from what a HUNTER should be in the show ring it makes me wonder what the point is anymore.

BTW - regarding rider size & weight - check out the people riding with ANY major Fox Hunting Association here or overseas and you won’t see a bunch of skinny minnies and mickies riding those big field hunters - how the heck would they pull them up in the field? And how would they last they day out?

I agree with posts above - get a letter to the AHSA & the Intercollegiate and post the identity of this judge and any other judge who makes a comment. State the date and the location and let it be known. Equestrians deserve to know which card carrying judges have any type of open bias - they should be left standing on the rail and not judging in the ring.