The WEIGHT issue

[dennaj]

This weekend at one of our collegiate horse shows, one of my students had to ride off against another of my students for the reserve highscore rider award. She did a beautiful job (she is a novice rider) and came really close to beating my open rider who is one of the best in the region. She asked me what she did wrong and I told her that she looked really great and with a little more mileage she would do even better.

For those of you who dont know, at college shows the riders are allowed to ask the judge questions about their ride after the show. So my happy little novice rider goes meandering over to the judge to ask her opinion on what to work on. The judges reply was that she had nice equitation but she would never win seriously unless she lost 5 pounds.

This was a FEMALE, large R judge. This is college riding, and not the maclay finals. The kid was crushed beyond belief. This is NOT a fat rider, as a matter of fact I would not even call her overweight. She is a big boned girl, almost 6 feet tall, who is of average to below average weight.

As a coach and teacher, I was seriously affronted. It may be that the judge meant well, but since she is a woman (we are ALL obsessive about our weight), you would think that she would have been a little more sensitive. I am not saying that it is any less offensive coming from a man, but men deal with completly different body type issues than women do. I personally know of 3 boy riders in our area in the last 10 years who won lots of medal classes and they were what I would classify as overweight, and yet, I dont think I ever heard anyone make a comment about how they needed to lose a few pounds.

If anyone else has visited the A shows in the past few years, they have seen several skeletal riders. I made a comment to a very well known trainer about one girl and he said, Oh, well, we dont talk about the problem. I was shocked. Did everyone feel that if they ignored the problem then it would just go away. Or was it guilt at having started the problem in the first place.

When is the last time that you ever heard a person who had to diet themselves to the bone to stay thin, telling someone that they needed to lose weight. Hooray for you if you are naturally thin, but dont destroy someones self esteem, because you were lucky enough to have “thin genes”.

I know that we have created equitation, with the tall thin rider in mind, but are we willing to sacrifice, what could be a childs life to an equitation championship. What is wrong with people that they are unable to accept people as they are.

All our riders are very physically fit, and if I get a rider that is a bit out of shape, or large, we encourage them to join us in 4 weekly workout sessions to get in shape. Wouldnt it have been more appropriate for the judge to have said that she felt the other rider was more experienced and perhaps a tad more physically fit, and encouraged the rider to run or work out to become more fit. Calling someone fat, never solved any problems with riding. I feel it only creates more.

Sorry this is so long. Please reply with your experiences and opinions.

[stop4]

I know of more and more people with eating disorders. Especially at the bigger shows. The eating disorders are everywhere now too. Im a freshman in highschool and there are 8 in my gradeof 100 with an eating disorder. It is sad how if you listen to little kids even pony riders at the concesion stand saying “I dont know if I should eat today, I dont want to gian to much weight!”

[CTT]

Thanks CWP actualy when i have time I volenteer alot of my time down at the health clinic. I spemd alot of time with Mascectamie(SP?) victims. No I didn’t loose mine to cancer but I did loose one and frankly I like being diffrent in that matter.Im not ashamed of it and actualy i like bringing things like this to peoples attention cause when people first meet me I look normal. But I do alot of counciling with women my age who are faced with loosing their breast. I have this comfort thing. When I sit down with a new group (usualy the ones that are going in for surgery) I were a tight shirt that is visable. Then I sit down for a fue and begin to talk but I make sure no one knows that I had mine removed. Then after about 15 mins I get up for a brief minuiet and remove my prostetic. I then sit down and continue till someone brings it to my attention. When they see such a young person sitting there they begin to ask questions and then I begin to explain and what happens is the people become more comfortable with the idea that they too will be like me. What my jod at the clinic is to comfort people and to let them know that they are not alone. When Im not there I do alot of work with with other various groops. I love what I do I just wish we could take some of the everyday programs and aply them to the hoorsee world. As a mater of fact Im going to Dallas next weekend to talk at a school about various isues. I love working with people. Im not ashamed of who I am and the more people know about me the better I feel. I love when people come to me on an isue and confide in me. I feel beter about myself and I feel beter for that person cause they are reaching out to me. I just wish we could do something about the health problems in the horse world.

[satin]

Thanks Coreene.

[Weatherford]

Just moving this up so it does not get lost. From here, you need to read Weight issue II and Weight issue III.

[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 04-12-2000).]

[loopdeedoopdey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mintee0257:
also just 5 years ago at a george morris clinic, there was a young lady riding who was a liitle overweight - she did all that was asked of her by george - and did it well. after 2 days of riding with him - his final critique of her was - "if i see you next year - i hope you’ll look like MISS TWIGGY NOT MISS PIGGY<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is really mean. I can’t stand that man- he’s a great trainer, I’m sure, but his comments about weight are really out of line.

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRG:
Just because people do it doesn’t mean that it is right of good for the animal. Read the study, University of Guelph has a copy a very thought provoking study. Don’t you think that an animal would have an easier time doing what it was asked if the load was lighter? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know the point you are making JRG, and I don’t disagree entirely. I think it is valid at the extremes of overweightness, but that would also compromise a rider’s effectiveness. Another factor is the horse’s size/build. For example, which would you consider to be the “better” choice for a 16’0 1250 lb horse of moderate bone:

1. a 5’4, 140lb rider, who runs 5 miles a day, swims and lifts weights (resistance weight building); or,

2. a 5’4 130lb rider who has little or no fitness program, and is a size larger than her 140lb counterpart (remember, muscle weighs more than fat); or

3. a 5’8 145lb rider who does little else except ride and some weight lifting (reps, not resistance).

IMHO, all 3 would not be out of the extreme realm for “acceptable” riding weight, but all things being equal, the lightest rider would probably be the one the horse needed to work hardest with…

[Moesha]

Not all trainers accept the “heavier” look in male riders. The pressure to stay thin may be an exception for male riders but definitly exists. In fact recent research, published in the Washington Post, NY Times etc. has shown an alarming “miscalculation” in the statistics for serious eating disorders in men.

[Lori]

I was so hesitant to post here (hoping the computer crashes or something), but I almost feel the need to make some comments.

The weight issue and what is “pretty” really strikes a nerve in me. I cannot accept that someone would pin someone above another due to weight. Geesh, pick on something more relevant. No 2 people can put in an EXACTLY the same round. If a judge thinks that, something has been missed somewhere…

Judges making such severe “boo-boos” should be banned for an alloted period of time from judging. Sorry, but if it saves the life and future of a youngster, it is more than well worth it.

I will never, ever be a tall, thin person. Sorry, guys, but at 4’9", it just won’t happen. To say that a short person looks unsuitable on a horse is not always correct, either. (bells are just NOW ringing in my head as to why I did not place against the taller, lesser riders I competed against in my youth) Eq classes and classes that specify “horse” for the mount give no option of a pony to the rider. Also, I can ride more effectively than lots of tall riders that I know. My trainer felt I was more than suitable for showing my husbands 15.2hh QH gelding when I was working with him.

Kelsy, please, please be careful. Your walking a fine line. Your patterns, the way that you talk and the way you have described your feelings are suggestive of the beginnings of eating disorders. You do not have to actually vomit to have an eating disorder. It is a disease that can get rather complicated to try to explain because everyone is an individual and that must be taken into account first.

I would HATE to see anyone have to travel the road that I did. CTT, you could not have said it all better. No, it really had nothing to do with eq or A shows or anything. Some was the modeling I was starting to get into, some was just plain old low self esteem. I had “quit” showing at the time due to my disgust with the subjective thing and this issue tops it.
However, I will say that when I hit rock bottom of 67 lbs (too small for a size 0 clothes by that time!) and was hospitalized for 3 months, it kind of sent a wake up call. I will add that the doctors all discussed the fact that I was “hopeless” and was not going to make it. Yes, I still struggle. I would lie to say that I feel “thin” at about 90 lbs (don’t ask me to get onto a scale, it is a no-no—but by now I can tell my weight by looking in the mirror). What really angers me is that I fell into a stupid trap set by “society” to be some sort of lemming and look like an “ideal” model or something (yeah, right, my whole entire body is just as tall as the “ideal” models legs!!!). UGH. I have always been a rebel, never a follower. I suppose that is what caused me to survive. Plus, and this is NO lie, severe hunger is very, very, very physically painful. I cannot even describe it in words right now. Ironically, one guy who saw me a few weeks after my release was in awe at how “good” I looked so thin. I was like “yeah, I just got out of the hospital you idiot” and walked away.

I still cannot look at magazines that have thin clothes models strutting their skinny stuff. I cannot watch any television station without feeling “less than” when the modeling/swimsuit/etc shows come on. I struggle daily with this issue, ask my wonderful, patient husband (who came into my life a few years after I got out of the hospital).

It sickens me to now find out that my beloved sport of showing hunters has stooped to such low, low levels. Even if someone is “obese”, it gives one NO right to tell them that they cannot ride. For some reason unknown to me, people think that anyone “overweight” is sloppy, lazy and unhealthy. This is so unfair. You have NO idea why a person is the way they are. You can also not change genetics. Leave them alone, is my feeling on the subject. At least they are out there trying.

There are ultra thin people out there that are that way naturally. It is also unfair to pick on them.

I only wish that I could be satisfied with the way that I look like some of you have posted here. Ahh, the envy of my lifetime. I don’t care what size you are, the fact that you are not bothered by it either way is such a remarkable trait.

How many people hear “make sure you GAIN 5 to 10 lbs by the time you get to the next show?” Maybe if that was heard more often, then things would change. Take it from me, I was SO weak, a slight spook would send me hurtling to the ground. I messed up a lot in my body and that is very, very sad. My hormones were so thrown off that I have now been “spayed” due to constant pain and troubles. I suppose I avoided more troubles to the body than some due to the fact that I was not “dieting” or “fasting” until the age of 19 or 20. Had I done this younger, I could possibly have been dead.

Sorry to ramble on, I just wanted to give another “first person” story to those out there who still walk the line.

[chief]

Regalmeans- you are so right about the food at horse shows! It drives me crazy and I could not imagine wolfing down a greasy hamburger minutes (even an hour) before my class. Why don’t they sell Power bars, smoothies, yogurt/ protein concoctions? We’re supposed to be athletes, right?

I was just telling my husband about a recent editorial in the Chronicle in which a plea for a “Tiger Woods of Riding” was mentioned… wouldn’t it be great to have healthy companies like Nike, Gatorade (the best at summer shows) or Power Bar sponsor equestrians athletes/ horse shows? Big money for all involved there!

I’ve also heard George mention the weight issue but he is more apt to harp on it ruthlessly if the rider is slightly overweight and does not carry it well. I rode in a clinic with him last summer and a rider in a lower division was rather overweight, but she carried it well and it did not hamper her horse’s jumping ability- I know, that probably sounds bad, but the rider was very solid, bigger, but just fit and confident. So, maybe George picks up on those who are self conscious about it, although it doesn’t make his comments right! He did say, however, “The thigh can never be too long or too thin, but it must be fit.” Take that for what it’s worth.

I am riding with him in two weeks and have already found myself worrying about my weight and any comments from him- I’m 5’9" and 135… I don’t think I am fat or overweight but it’s sad that THIS is the issue I am worrying about with George!

[Black_Market_Radio]

When I was in bootcamp, we had recruits that were overweight and were put on diets. But they were never made to feel bad about themselves or anything like that. In fact, the DI’s were motivating, and never faulted anyone for body type. But there is a major difference in this issue. The reason that people need to be a certain weight in the Marines is because you are in the military and need to be fit. But there were many different sizes and shapes and they took into account body type for what your weight should be if you were muscular and such. I had the problam of always being underweight, but I gained quite a bit in muscle while I was there. I think that fitness is VERY important, and I think it’s sad to see so many frail people around who starve themselves. I think it is terrible for a judge to pin people solely on weight and body type. There are not very many tall thin people out there, the majority are “normal”
…to be continued, I have to leave!

[Black_Market_Radio]

OORAH Flash44! VERY well put. And thank you to the person who said that fitness does not mean a certain mold of a body type. There is a level of fitness for each individual person and everyone can be fit for whatever body type they are and should not be condemmed for trying it. I could see a judge saying something to a 300lb person riding a 14h arab, but a few pounds? COME ON!! It’ts so terribly sad. I also suggested to Erin that COH should do an article on eating disorders in the horse world. Or we could write letters to the editor for some of these magazines protesting the diet ads and such. I think they are terrible! My mom struggled with Anorexia/bulemia, and one of my best friends right now is bulemic. It is not fun. It’s terrible. I hate to see her go through this. She is on medication that makes her not want to throw up. But she has been this way for four years! It’s sad because they are so weak and frail, and yes, they ARE more likley to faint and become dehydrated during the summer months. I think this is something we really need to focus on and change. For those of you who say “that’s the way ot is, it’s never going to change…” Well, what if the early revelutionaries took that tone? We’d still be under English rule! Change comes from people standing up and protesting. It’ts like that Garth Brooks song “Go Against The Grain” the words are “nothin ventured, nothin gained, sometimes you gotta go against the grain” If you don’t like something, fight it! That is how things change! Don’t just sit in a rut and decide nothing can be done about it. earthquakes and volcanoes can’t be controlled, but if the members of the HS world stand up and protest, then the comtrol will shift to the members. THINK 60’S LOL!!

[Jumphigh83]

Trust me on this one…No “helpful” suggestion from a judge or any other “stranger” will motivate weight loss. It is a VERY sensitive isue with most of us. The only way to kindly deal with the “problem” is to have a very close personal friend or family member perhaps start a discussion about nutrition and/or fitness in a very impersonal tone. This could lead to a door being opened, but if you force the door open, you might find your fingers getting slammed in it when it pushes back SHUT. If the horse was suffering, I am surprised the individual wasn’t more sensitive to the needs of his/her horse in terms of comfort level rather than his/her own weight. I know I am very accutely aware of how my body affects my horse and take great pains to see that she is comfortable AND sound.

[Snowbird]

If that were my student at any level who received that reply, I can assure you that the judge would receive from me a very private letter explaining how she had done so much damage to this child who would have needed body remodeling to remove bone to suit her.

Whether it is a virtue or a sin is for others to decide, but in my opinion whenever look becomes more important than quality and ability it is the judge who is in error, whatever the field or sport.

I speak to you as someone who has had the opportunity to be skinny. I did not find it an asset. I speak as someone who was a model and I think that it is a crime when vanity supercedes ability. My children and grandchildren are beautiful and by contemporary standards might be the right build, I would be very unhappy for them if they grew up believing the looks were everything. What a pity that is! God! made us all different, if it was wise for us all to look the same why not just clone those few ideals for everyone.

What a boring world this would be if every female looked like every other female and they were all size 2. Where then would excellence be?

[Snowbird]

Cozmo,
Let me tell you that the most important part of growing up is knowing who you are. If every comment from people who don’t even know your name is going to matter and change your life, you weight won’t solve the problem. There is ALWAYS some reason, some excuse some alibi about why you don’t win.

Step 1. Winning doesn’t matter
Step 2. They all agreed that you were a good rider.
Step 3. Love yourself and do what makes you happy.
Step 4. An Unhappy rider doesn’t win either.

This is from a trainer who’s a MOM first. In my book they have the problem not you! And, guess what sometimes people are just plain jealous. And, Sometimes they’re not thinking at all, just a little (open mouth, tongue flapping disease). Hey! how skinny were the guys talking? Maybe you should tell them you’d take their advice better if they were skinnier and knew what it felt like.

[haligator]

Hi All,
I’m a ‘r’ judge and officiate at both AHSA and IHSA shows. I have never judged a rider based on their weight - to me, that would be like judging someone based on their religion or ethnic background. It is simply prejudice! If a judge can find nothing to mark down on a rider but their weight, I seriously wonder about their abilities. I know I will probably get flamed for saying that, but think about it.

In 1991-1993 when I was learner judging to get my AHSA license, I heard a number of big ‘R’ judges say some very inappropriate comments about female riders’ weights - of course no comment was ever made about the male riders. However, I also sat with some judges who were 100% fair and non-political - and pinned the best rider despite their weight or who their trainer was. But the point is - there are judges out there who are prejudiced against heavy riders, no matter how talented the heavy rider is.

I was actually thanked by a trainer last year at a Long Island IHSA show because her student pinned first in a big, competitive class. Of course her student pinned first - she had a great leg, light hands, good posture, and overall good horsemanship. The student was also about 70 pounds overweight…which led to me being thanked. The trainer explained that this rider, albeit a very talented and correct rider, never wins because of her weight.
Would this rider be a better rider if she lost weight? Well, that’s not for me as a judge to decide - I’m only supposed to judge what is in front of me at that very moment, and judge it fairly. I’m not a doctor - I’m a horse show judge.

This issue, and many like it in our industry, make me angry and incredibly sad. And because I don’t play politics, count strides, or penalize heavy riders, I will probably never receive a promotion to big ‘R’. But that’s okay - I like the horse show world I exist in - where most horses are still pets and ponies get hugged even if they put in five strides in a two-stride combo.

Sorry for the long post, but this issue struck a raw nerve with me.
Hallie

[CTT]

i sometimes amaze myself. To think Im still so young yet have concured so much in my life. Form me now this is a therapy to sit back and feel more at ease with myself. every day I open a new door where I get stronger and Sure I wish I could have changed my life but Ive learned more lesons that have made me a better person. And for thoes lessons Im happy to be me.

[Erin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dennaj:
First of all, to weatherford, one of the riders that you saw in Wellington, in the GP ring, has been a skeleton for at least 4 years that I know of and she is who I was talking about in my first post. She actually looked as if she (thank god because she looks so much better), gained some weight since the last time I saw her. So hopefully, finally someone said something to her, or tried to intervene and get her some help.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know everyone has the best interests of these riders at heart, but I’m assuming most of you are fortunate enough not to have had to personally deal with someone who has an eating disorder. An anorexic/bulemic’s mind works differently… if you tell her you think she’s too thin, that actually REINFORCES the behavior. Tell her she looks better having put on five pounds, and she’ll probably panic and cut herself down from 10 carrot sticks a day to two.

“Saying something” to people like this isn’t necessarily a good idea. (This is also why I’ve asked people not to name names when this discussion has come up in the past.) I’d suggest talking to someone else who’s close to the person (parents, a trainer, etc.) and asking them to contact a counselor with experience in eating disorders who can tell them what to do, and what not to do.

I’m not an expert in this by any means, but I’ve been through it with a very close friend. It’s an extremely frustrating experience…

[satin]

CTT, you are rapidly turning into one of my heroes! I think it’s great that you give so much of yourself and are so open to sharing your experiences. You are certainly a role model and inspiration to us all. Thanks again.

[Flash44]

Boy, those insensitive comments by those judges have me burning. That is a direct admission that they were not judging the class by IHSA/AHSA standards and rules, but by rules that they made up on their own! That is grounds enough for a formal complaint to the AHSA, and for the AHSA to hold a hearing regarding regarding the ability of a judge to hold a license.

I just did a 5k race yesterday, and some of those not so skinny girls KICKED MY A**! They were definately more fit than me even if I weighed less.