Theory discussion: Thorough training and fixing holes

[strangewings]

Inspired by some of the recent discussions in other threads, I am sure we all have the experience of having to fix holes in training in some way or another. If you are a pro, maybe it is a client horse. If you are an amateur, maybe it is something you didn’t install correctly the first go round or inadvertently rushed through. Or for anyone, maybe you have a generous horse that allowed you to e.g. skip/minimize groundwork or some other prep work that you only saw consequences of later.

In the spirit of knowing better to do better, can we share both the theory and practice associated with fundamentals that directly influence higher level work, but maybe with many steps in between? How does the horse tell you they really “get” the lesson and is ready to move on? How should an amateur or less experienced trainer identify that some basics are actually missing when they encounter a resistance that might be considered normal?

[RedHorses]

This isn’t very helpful, but. to answer these:

@strangewings

How does the horse tell you they really “get” the lesson and is ready to move on? How should an amateur or less experienced trainer identify that some basics are actually missing when they encounter a resistance that might be considered normal?

Feel.

Learning to really listen to what the horse is telling you. “No” has a different feel to “I don’t understand.” “I can’t” feels different from “I don’t wanna!”

I was lucky early on in my riding life, to encounter a horse who said “No.” I didn’t ride him much, and shortly after I stopped riding him he was diagnosed with some health issue that would make riding uncomfortable or painful. He was smart enough to protect himself by simply refusing to do certain things.

I took the lesson to heart and learned to trust what I was feeling from the horses.

[Manni01]

My experience is that if a training session went well and both rider and horse understood the purpose, the horse will start the next day exactly where it finished the day before….
Then you as a rider have the responsibility to maintain that

[Cowgirl]

Well, I think you have to visit the pyramid every time you advance training or you will have a hole. For example, if you are trying to move a horse from traveling like a roller skate (novice work) to traveling like a roller blade (more advanced work where the horse engages its hind legs to travel under it’s center of gravity), you will have to refine your concepts of straightness. You will have to work on straightness. As an example of that, you might use an exercise like spiral in and out at novice level to get the horse more straight and balanced between inside leg and outside rein. You might use that same exercise at the higher levels to achieve the engagement of the hind legs for roller blade straightness, but add in some shoulder fore or haunches out or haunches in.

For me, with younger horses now, I am trying to make them even and supple on both sides. Both of my young horses are a little stiff on the left, which is common. This impacts the contact, the straightness, the bending/suppleness, impulsion and even rhythm, etc. I feel it is important to spend time here in order to build the blocks to advance. So I am doing suppling excercises like figure eights and serpentines, but paying attenion to bend and straighten and have their shoulders aligned and keep their midsections from bulging. If I don’t have these things on the straight line and circle line first, I can’t really have it moving laterally. Then I add forward and back exercises to try to retain that level of straightness with impulsion. Sometimes you have to do a little less on one side than the other, until it catches up. For example the shallow serpentine at trot. Maybe I don’t go all the way to X on the stiff side yet, but work my way there. You get a real test doing that loop in canter because they will break gait if they don’t have the basics yet on the stiffer side the same as the other side where they don’t break gait.

Sorry for the rambling, but yet the basics. Test and revisit them as you move the horse along. Start with basic exercises and when you have mastered those on both sides, add challenging elements.

[millerra]

roller skate vs roller blade. That is imagery that resonates. Thanks!

[Demerara_Stables]

@strangewings

How does the horse tell you they really “get” the lesson and is ready to move on?

When it’s easy for them. Meaning, when I can use the lightest amount of weight/leg/hand, they are moving easily forward or laterally off my leg, and are light in the bridle.

There’s a huge fitness component to this that I think a lot of people don’t account for. Just because a horse “gets” how to shoulder-in, doesn’t mean it will be easy for them. It takes quite a bit of strength to shoulder-in the length of the long side, especially on a younger horse that doesn’t have the muscle memory. For me, I’m looking for them to get the concept, be as light as possible in the aids (with higher level collection, this might mean more weight in the bridle until they get fit), and then we work incrementally to increase strength. Once they can hold the movement for a little longer than the length of time required in a test, we can move to the next thing. And if they have time off or we don’t work on something for a while (mine don’t show pure dressage, so we don’t work everyday on the movements), I’m prepared to build that strength again when we come back to the movement. The strength building often takes weeks, sometimes months to build.

[Demerara_Stables]

@strangewings

How should an amateur or less experienced trainer identify that some basics are actually missing when they encounter a resistance that might be considered normal?

I think if you’re having to go to the stick or spur or heavy hand over and over, then something is missing. When teaching the shoulder-in for instance, my horses first learn a turn on the forehand and a rudimentary turn on the haunches. I want them to know how to move different parts of their body depending on where my leg is. They also learn how to leg yield first so they understand the concept of forward and sideways at the same time. Before that even, they learn to step sideways at a halt. If I’m having to work to bend them or having to go to my hand to ask for bend, or having to use a spur or stick to get forward, they don’t understand the basic aids or they aren’t strong enough. Then I go back to basics and make sure they understand what leg, hand, and bend mean.

If you ask correctly and the horse immediately gets the right answer, they get it. If they fall out of it after a few steps or even after half the arena, they probably need to get stronger.

[EleganteE]

Great answers so far because this is complicated so the more thoughts on it the better.

This question can be hard because it does take knowledge and feel. Say you ask a horse to do a canter-walk transition. If they break to trot instead, is it because it is too hard for them, your timing is off or because you didn’t align them correctly? If you know your exercises, you can figure it out. Ex. canter onto a smaller circle then leg yield out one or two steps then ask for walk (LY out puts the horse into the outside rein and if you can control the steps out then your timing will be better). Or say your canter departs aren’t good. Improve your shoulder-in and use that position to ask for canter.

If you run into resistance, always question your timing and the horse’s position. Find another way to ask the same question that helps you and the horse. There are a ton of exercises that can be combined to help answer the question of strength or understanding. And many times it is rider error. Sigh.

[strangewings]

@EleganteE

If you run into resistance, always question your timing and the horse’s position

And your position!

One “trick” I was reminded of recently for triaging problems where it may not be easy to tell what exactly was lost in translation between horse and rider…is that there is no shame in just pretending the horse knows nothing to check in: does he respond to light go and whoa aids? Can he go forward to contact of I make the line of travel easy to find by riding with wider hands? Can he yield to pressure in hand? Etc. I think I do some version of these checks in warm up, but I have sometimes been surprised when I very deliberately tried these things when something (lateral work or whatever) was not coming together. Often it is enough to refresh the separation of leg and hand aids to clear up the communication.

[VodkaRedbullx2]

A good trainer asks the same question but makes the exercise easier and decreases the degree of difficulty when a horse says no.

Today my horse didn’t want to sit in canter so I went back to shoulder in trot for a few reps before going back to shoulder fore canter.

[strangewings]

@Cowgirl

For me, with younger horses now, I am trying to make them even and supple on both sides.

Any thoughts/comments on what you feel for when teaching your youngsters about working into contact with the outside rein through these exercises?

The mechanics of correct outside contact has always been a slippery target for me personally. I am sensitive enough in my feel to do an ok job with very green horses, but I tend to get into patterns of holding later on in training.

Probably more serpentines would force me to be more thoughtful. I tend to neglect these once I have lateral work and 10 m circles to work with.

Unrelated to your post but something that just came to mind is that it would be really cool to do multi-day clinics with a really good theory person who could give reading homework between your rides over multiple days…

[strangewings]

What is everybody reading to learn theory these days anyway? I have to admit I read voraciously when I first started ages ago, but tend to read most these days only when I don’t really have a horse to ride. I hate admitting that, but it is true and I am certain my eye and theory knowledge has slipped a lot.

[Cowgirl]

I walk squares a lot and do turns on the haunches, which I first teach on the ground. But I really like the spiral in/leg yield out exercise. You can also trot a square, walk, do a quarter turn on the haunchs for your corner, trot , etc. This square exercise causes you also to be mindful of your lines. Conrad Schumacher likes to make a small square with poles and you have to turn inside it. It makes you mindful of the outside rein and when the square is a little bit smaller, to use your inside leg more to keep the impulsion.

[Demerara_Stables]

@strangewings

What is everybody reading to learn theory these days anyway?

COTH and blogs

There’s so much new content out almost daily that, while books are still useful, reading what other people are using for exercises (for instance like @Cowgirl and @EleganteE’s ideas above), always interests me. What I love about training is that there are almost infinite ways to accomplish a task, and many horses learn differently. Having a very deep toolbox, regardless of if those tools come from Podhajsky, your neighbor that rides endurance, or a rando on the internet, is invaluable.

[Manni01]

Just sharing what I am experiencing with my young horse in the moment… overall at home we have a good agreement and she is pleasant to ride. But I found out that during a show she is distracted and therefore we had a lot of unwanted interruptions in our flow.
The judges told me that I need to work her more consistent over her back….
So in the moment I am working on that… it’s a bit like forcefetching… she knows how to do it but she doesn’t see the necessity to do it all the time… So in the last week I started to establish this as a routine for both of us….
OMG it’s hard work !! I really try to get her in front of my legs by using my core until I feel that her whole body is shifting. Her butt gets lower and her front legs reach out more… it works really well once we get there, but until then OMG … it feels like my legs are falling off…… She has no objections but she is not giving me one cm so far. It feels like I have to carry her with my legs all the way…. I hope it gets easier once both of us get more routine with it…
Very thankful to Jessica von Bredow Werndls Fitnessprogramm… she really focuses on the core, now I know why….
I am very excited that my horse is so willing and I hope this will be a break through for our dressage journey!!!