Thin soles? Should I pay for a lameness exam after a ppe?

[welcheroni]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but I’m looking for advice: I found an absolute dream horse, rode her and vetted her last week. During the vetting she was off on her RF. I did pay to x-ray the foot and fetlock, and everything looked fine. The vet said her soles were on the thinner side and thought she probably just needed shoes, but I paused the PPE to turn it over to the owner to figure out the problem.

Now the owner is telling me that she doesn’t have the money for a lameness exam. I can do one if I want to pay for it, and she’d deduct it from the purchase price. Otherwise, sounds like she’ll probably just slap shoes on her and see how she does.

I really like the horse, but I’m unsure if I should walk away. I invested a significant amount of money for me in the trip and vetting, and just don’t know if I should spend more. On the other hand, she really is a dream horse. I’m wondering if this group has advice. Here’s the x-ray - do you think these soles are thin enough that I should pass based on that alone? My gut instinct is to not pay for a lameness exam and see what the owner figures out on her own.

[Scribbler]

@welcheroni

Not sure if this is the right forum, but I’m looking for advice: I found an absolute dream horse, rode her and vetted her last week. During the vetting she was off on her RF. I did pay to x-ray the foot and fetlock, and everything looked fine. The vet said her soles were on the thinner side and thought she probably just needed shoes, but I paused the PPE to turn it over to the owner to figure out the problem.

Now the owner is telling me that she doesn’t have the money for a lameness exam. I can do one if I want to pay for it, and she’d deduct it from the purchase price. Otherwise, sounds like she’ll probably just slap shoes on her and see how she does.

I really like the horse, but I’m unsure if I should walk away. I invested a significant amount of money for me in the trip and vetting, and just don’t know if I should spend more. On the other hand, she really is a dream horse. I’m wondering if this group has advice. Here’s the x-ray - do you think these soles are thin enough that I should pass based on that alone? My gut instinct is to not pay for a lameness exam and see what the owner figures out on her own.

I’m not sure why you’d need a lameness exam. You already know the horse is lame.

Is the horse lame on reasonably soft arena footing? Then pass. A horse that is lame on arena footing has something more than thin soles going on.

Indeed a very rough rule of thumb says hoof problems will show up more on hard surfaces (concussion) while soft tissue will show up more on soft surfaces where the horse has to push off more. And of course a barefoot horse can suck back on gravel without being lame, it’s quite normal if they don’t live on gravel

You could source some hoof boots and see if that makes the problem go away.

What you want owner to do is a full diagnostic work up starting with the foot, likely not the source of the problem from what you say and working up to leg, shoulder, back, neck. Bone scans and x-rays down that rabbit hole, thousands of dollars. It would be nuts for you to do this on your own dime.

Now my guess is this is a wonderful horse being sold a bit under market value and you want to jump on the bargain. But now you know why she is a bargain.

Don’t buy a pre existing problem. You could sink thousands of dollars into imaging and find out she has knee arthritis or neck issues or whatever and will never be rideable. Walk away.

If shoes could fix this owner would have shoes on the horse. Otherwise selling a subtly lame horse barefoot and saying “oh she just probably needs shoes” is a very effective piece of dishonest horse trading.

[welcheroni]

Thanks for your reply. They ride her in TN on hard ground out in a field, unfortunately. So that could reasonably be the cause of the lameness. She is a good deal, but primarily because she had kissing spine surgery a couple of years ago, and is now back to full work with no signs of back pain. But I agree with you that it’s probably time to walk away.

[gailbyrd]

I second what Scribbler says. Walk away. When I was more naive concerning PPE and purchasing horses, I spent a couple thousand on a horse (on top of the initial PPE) that I then walked away from when all results were indicating the horse would have problems down the road that I wasn’t in a position to deal with (lovely mare, great mover, lame on one front, soft tissue issue that wasn’t causing problems at the moment except for her to be slightly off on flexion). I wasn’t in the market for a mare I would have to retire to the breeding shed sooner rather than later. The mare did end up with someone who was able to ride her to PSG but then had to retire her at a rather young age. She was bred and produced a couple of lovely prospects so she ended up in a good place. I just wasn’t that place.

Now if this is a horse that you can deal with not being ridable in the near future but she will have a good home with you or someone you know would like her for breeding, then you could take the chance and purchase and then do the maintenance that she will need to be sound.

Good luck with whatever decision you make

[steelerino]

As the owner of a retired kissing spine horse. Run don’t walk away.

[islgrl]

walk away. There are other horses.

[Scribbler]

@welcheroni

Thanks for your reply. They ride her in TN on hard ground out in a field, unfortunately. So that could reasonably be the cause of the lameness. She is a good deal, but primarily because she had kissing spine surgery a couple of years ago, and is now back to full work with no signs of back pain. But I agree with you that it’s probably time to walk away.

No sign of back pain but lame RF from no obvious hoof cause, and being ridden while lame by idiot owners who are now trying to sell her while not knowing what’s really going on.

So often horses with one issue have cascading series of issues, it’s whack a mole, fix the back and find out she has knee arthritis or neck impingement.

[fivestrideline]

@welcheroni

They ride her in TN on hard ground out in a field, unfortunately. So that could reasonably be the cause of the lameness. She is a good deal, but primarily because she had kissing spine surgery a couple of years ago, and is now back to full work with no signs of back pain. But I agree with you that it’s probably time to walk away.

Nope nope nope. The KS + now vague “foot” pain is a sign this might be neck/SI/etc etc. IMO kissing spine is rarely the smoking gun, but rather a compensatory symptom due to something else, and they tend to dump weight into weird places and pop suspensories or check ligaments. Ask me how I know

Don’t buy someone else’s problem. I can guarantee the current owners spent the money on the back surgery and then found the horse is still off, so now they’re just trying to sell her. This is not a broodmare prospect either, so try not to let that be a “reason” to take a chance on her.

There are other horses that aren’t lame at a PPE. Unless you’ve got a field to keep her as a pasture pet for the rest of her life and you’d like to fund your vet’s new Mercedes, keep looking.

[Paint_Party]

Guess I’ll join the gang and chime in. Let this one go. There’s another dream horse out there that won’t be obviously lame during the PPE.

As others have suggested, there could be many reasons why this horse is lame, barefoot or not. It’s a rabbit hole you need not venture down.

[Bogie]

@Scribbler

Don’t buy a pre existing problem. You could sink thousands of dollars into imaging and find out she has knee arthritis or neck issues or whatever and will never be rideable. Walk away.

This! Never spend YOUR money diagnosing the problem on someone else’s horse. It’s the owner’s responsibility to figure out what’s wrong.

[Peggy]

Do you need another stranger’s voice telling you to walk away? Don’t buy a problem.

[rulex]

If you’re wanting to get an education in hoof and body issues, and develop a closer and more familiar relationship with your vet, farrier, and body worker, and send a lot of money their way, then this could be a good horse for that.

If you have aspirations to ride, I would keep looking.

[trubandloki]

If you are one of the lucky people who can afford to buy a horse and then retire her and provide for her vet needs then please, buy her and figure out what is going on here.

[Pehsness]

@alpine1

If you’re up for a PPE laugh: Horse Girl Goes to the Vet: Pre Purchase Exam

[SusanO]

Too funny!

[Pico_Banana]

I will provide the other perspective on this.

I looked at a schoolmaster in April. Riding great, a little something going on with his RH that you could see but nothing huge. Was showing 4th without being rung out, for what it’s worth. I had been assured that he had one set of SI and hock injections at the start of his lease because he’d been sitting in a field for a while, is older, and was going back to high level work.

Fast forward to the PPE and all of a sudden I’m told he’s had two lameness workups, more injections, and a periodically sore back. Physical parts of the PPE he passes with flying colors, but the minimal x-rays I did showed ringbone in both fronts. Everyone said don’t buy, pass on him, don’t take on someone else’s problem, etc.

Full disclosure, I have my own place so retirement is a whole different ballgame for me than it is if you board.

Long story short, after much stress and anxiety, I decided to take a chance and buy him. And it’s been WONDERFUL. Started him on a joint supplement from Australia recommended by my vet and he’s moving even better than before. Yes, there’s still something in the RH but he is more than just serviceably sound. No clinical signs of ringbone at all. I am so happy I decided to risk it.

So it can work out, I guess is what I’m saying.

(But having just been in your position, I know it sucks.)

[EmilyM]

I was thinking at first, it is great that the seller was open the the lameness work up. It’s hard to find good horses. but if nothing is found after blocking and radiographs, do you then take him for an MRI? you won’t know if it’s the foot soreness from thin soles vs say a Collateral or DDFT tear because they can block to the same area. so where does it end? Sadly, I think you have to pass.

[Pezanos]

Okay, hijacking to ask bc I know others here will be interested but what is this majykal joint supplement from Australia???

[Pico_Banana]

Ha! Didn’t mean to be mysterious! It is made from biota oil and marketed under the names of InPrime or 4Cyte. I buy it from my vet, who imports it from Australia. Although I think I saw an ad for a company in the UK that sells it for potentially slightly cheaper and will ship to the US.

It’s a bit of a pain to administer. It’s a gel that comes in a pouch and you have to withdraw it with a syringe (provided) to get a 4ml dose. Which sounds all well and good except it doesn’t come out very well and when it does there are air bubbles so I end up withdrawing to about 10 mls on the syringe and then plunging back in to get rid of the air bubbles. It’s given orally so I don’t worry about it but it offends the part of my brain that says syringes should only withdraw from the original container.

Price wise it’s about $60 a month so not bad.

[Pezanos]

thanks!