No argument there. There are dumb——- who jump on any popular bandwagon because they think they need to, without investigating why.
I took offense to the original fashion comment because its inference was anything that isn’t out of a feed bag is therefore fashionable and unnecessary.
I really really wish I could go back to feeding a handful of plain old oats and corn, “just to keep them coming in”. It’s a whole lot cheaper but the IR/Cushings horse would, without question, have been dead a few years back.
The grain/soy/environmentally sensitive horse would probably be the first hairless horse on record and with a bad attitude to boot:) At least the rewards of feeding this expensive specialized stuff is that he has all his hair and he will drop his head to put his nose in my armpit, like the great horse I always knew was locked inside, once I discovered his issues:)
Absolutely agree with this and I have found the very superficial idea of “forage first” to fall in line with being fadish and taken to the extreme. I think most can agree that forage should be the basis of a nutritional program, but some take that to mean “forage only”. I tried it out of necessity. The results were terrible. Some air ferns may be able to live on just hay, but clearly I do not own air ferns. Some horses truly do just need more concentrate. Some can do a ration balancer just fine. But I think those who paint with a broad brush, in any sense with any feeding technique, can do irreparable harm. “Feed an appropriate amount of high quality forage before adding concentrates” should never be misconstrued as “concentrates are the devil”. :lol:
Yes, people jump on a word or a set of words and either imply a whole lot that isn’t, or shouldn’t be true, or from the other side, infer a lot that isn’t or shouldn’t be true.
“grain”
“grain-free”
“forage-based”
“natural”
Waaaayyyy too many people have entire arguments about either of those because neither understood they needed to define the terms, or even understand it themselves, and just get more and more upset with the other person because they’re each talking about something very different, while both are (or could be) right. Are you claiming your horse should be off commercial feeds because you want him to eat an all-natural diet, but then you feed rice bran and beet pulp?
And that doesn’t even touch on the people who use their experience - which is always limited in the grand scheme of things - to imply and outright state that’s how the entire world does or should work.
“No horse needs concentrates. All horses can do just fine with just hay or grass”.
Then you say “no, they can’t”
If you’re lucky, they say “yes, they can, if you have high enough quality hay/grass”. Ok, NOW we’re qualifying things, which as to be done. Always.
Yes, get a high enough quality hay and you can absolutely provide enough calories to even a harder working horse - racing STBs have proved it. BUT… even if that’s the evidence you provide, you’ve still missed the point that even those studies had to provide additional nutrients to make up for what the hay lacked and/or was out of balance. More, critical qualification.
And that doesn’t even get into the fact that not everyone can get hay of that quality.
So 1, don’t be that person who proclaims X is and is always right, but 2, DO be the person who asks for clarification before deciding they are right OR wrong.
I have fed practically every combination of everything ever on the market over my 30+ years of horse ownership, and TCS is second-to-none IMO when it comes to commercial feeds. It is completely forage-based, no grain at all, high fat, low NSC, and just an all-around outstanding feed.
I wouldn’t change a thing. You can’t replicate the benefits of everything in TCS on your own without a lot of cost and trouble. It’s good stuff. Ignore your barefoot trimmer.
Thank you to all who have responded! Talked to BO about what he was getting fed before moving. Sooo, he is now on 3 qt TCS, 3 qt Timothy pellets 2x day with a cup of flax in the pm feeding. They do not feed any alfalfa so I picked up a bag of cubes at feed store and will soak and give him that when I come out to ride. He is also back on his Aloe juice for his tummy and we are putting shoes back on Monday!!
One last question. Does he need any other supps with this diet??
Not sure if this really applies here, but several months ago I switched my horses from Nutrena Safe Choice to TC30 - about the same time that Tractor Supply started carrying Triple Crown. I had no convenient or local access to it previously, so as soon as I saw they were going to have it, I jumped at the chance to try it. Today my mare got her shoes reset, and my farrier (who I did not tell about the feed change) took one look at her feet and asked me “what changed?” The new growth coming in, which I hadn’t seen because she wears bell boots 24/7, is markedly different. I was surprised, as I didn’t think she had been on it long enough to make a difference. Evidently I was wrong! I asked her, “Is that good?” “Oh hell yeah, look how much tighter and stronger it is!” I can’t see it the way she does - but I believe her.
My horses are turned out to graze all day on about 12 acres, then kept up in a much smaller yard at night. We’re in a bit of a drought now and it’s fall - so the forage is all dying. I won’t call it grass because there’s a lot of other stuff in the pasture too, all native growth that I manage simply by keeping it mowed. So they are also getting hay at night, about 10 - 15 lbs each. Based on the amount of grazing they are allowed, and the added hay, I thought a ration balancer would be better for them than the handful of concentrated feed they were getting, and hopefully meet more of their nutritional needs than their former diet was. If my farrier’s reaction today is any indicator, I’m on the right track. I just can’t wait to see how her hooves actually grow out now, and if her shoes (necessary now to keep her sound) can be a thing of the past? If not, that’s fine, but it sure would be nice if she grew a good enough hoof that they could come off!
I also have a question about feeding flax, but I think I’ll make that it’s own topic and not hijack this one any further!
We had some decent rain a little over a month ago, and everything greened up nicely - but no rain since then and it’s all gone dormant again. I always give them a few flakes of hay (coastal) to share at night anyway, I’m just giving them a few more now that it’s dried up.
Rarely a bad idea once there’s not enough fresh grass
Ah, if only it were that simple! I did create a new thread and would love your input on my dilemma, though.
I was blocked from the Hoof Care and Rehabilitation Group for disagreeing with them on diet. Not just kicked out, but blocked from the group. You know me around a few of the groups… am I ever rude or mean?? I was defending someone who was feeding TCS and TC30%. It was being bashed for the soy, added iron and that it’s… gasp processed.
I can verify that for my 1 mare she did way better on dry lot ( 1.5 acres with enough " green" to look for something but no real nutrition) and 2 good hay feedings a day. My guys were happy. No muzzle, no being locked up overnight etc… I was happier too.
Now I have acres of grass and have to constantly fight with weight, time in a muzzle etc… For some horses this is definitely true!
:mad::mad::mad: They can be just as bad as the rabid “barefoot or bust” group. Clearly, that sub-set of people have not been around enough horses who have “rehabbed” on feeds with gasp soy and iron!
I hear you! I’d rather put mine out on a similar lot than in a stall too! More room for horse, less mucking for people! Certainly it’s best to restrict grass ( calories and sugars) for the chunky monkeys and the IR types.
Like I said previously, I for real heart my farrier. But he’s a bit over the top on the grass thing. He’d tell you that your dry lot with just enough green was also bad. “Over grazed grass is stressed grass and stressed grass is more sugary than in stressed grass”. He wouldn’t put the hardest keeping TB out on grass. Great farrier, but I don’t always take his nutritional advice seriously.
I have no clue if closely grazed grass is actually higher in sugar. I’m just saying what the farrier would say
I recently had to part company with my trimmer of 20 years or so because he only wanted to argue with me about food. (“If it comes in a bag, it’s crap!”)
In the spring I moved my very hard keeping OTTB mare to a grain free diet. I had treated her for ulcers multiple times, they always came back. Her coat was horrible and she was skinny but was getting a ton of feed. Had the vet out for a checkup and teeth floating (they weren’t bad so it was not causing her weight issues) and my vet suggested trying her on alfalfa and hay only. I originally resisted because she is already an anxious horse and I didn’t want her more nutty due to the alfalfa. Well I tried it anyway because I wasn’t riding her because of her weight and I had nothing to lose. She is currently on free choice orchard grass hay and alfalfa pellets with a quality vitamin geared towards a grain free diet. She looks the best she has since I have owned her and is relaxed and seems to be ulcer free. I have just started adding beet pulp mostly because it is starting to get colder and it is a way to be sure that she is getting extra water and her pasture companion is a senior and needs to the beet pulp. I will say that if you can move to a grain free diet do it! I am so happy I did.
At least the rewards of feeding this expensive specialized stuff is that he has all his hair and he will drop his head to put his nose in my armpit, like the great horse I always knew was locked inside, once I discovered his issues:)
