“those of us who are true horsemen”
That made me laugh, thank you Maude.
Off now to go out and pet (and feed) my horses.
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As an old person I can tell you that the “Thrills and Spills” is what made eventing popular in the first place. People expected to see falls, and those video compilations used to sell like hot cakes. Having said that I remember very few serious horse injuries prior to the 90s when the new courses came in. Personally I knew none at all and I lived in the heart of eventing country and knew lots of riders. It could be that I was too young to notice but the only horse death listed at Badminton online prior to 1992 is due to a heart attack.
I will also say that the vast majority of the anti-cross country sentiment comes from the UK where organizations have parlayed anti-hunting sentiment into general anti-horse sentiment with a large dose of class war, anti-conservationism/ pro development and misogyny built in. I’m not British but have spent enough time living there to have a fairly good understanding but if you’ve spent your entire life in the USA and only read about it in articles and online it might look quite different. We are starting to see it on US social media now though, lots of comments about riding being wasteful and elitist and how the land and resources (and presumably the women themselves) could be better utilized by young men to raise families. We are hearing the same thing in the conservation space in which I am heavily involved. I’ve been watching that grow with alarm and at this point the US is facing losing public lands entirely and quite a large segment of the young male populations supports that. Or, ETA, maybe it’s better to state they feel it is inevitable and may as well happen sooner than later so they personally can benefit.
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So I started this post and have sat here and watched and listened and agreed, disagreed, pulled my hair out in some moments and ultimately have formed this conclusion.
The folks who have been around the Eventing block, Especially since pre-1990, have seen and ridden more and watched more turmoil than the eventing fans of the last decade and a half. This, I want to note, is important because in the early years there was a completely different mindset that existed in the view of horse and human welfare. The strings attached to the “old days” and calvary associations were still very much attached. “Frangible” was in no one’s vocabulary and while I am sure there were folks then thinking it could be done better, it wasn’t steeped in safety committees and the like.
Since this is the origin point for many influential people of today it’s worth noting that your original perspectives can change, and they have I’m sure, but there could be elements that linger. It’s NOT a lack of caring about horse, rider, event, welfare, that can cause a seasoned 5* competitor who is commenting to laugh that Phanty got back up without triggering the rules for a fall. It’s the understanding of tough eventing life, if I had to take a guess, but realistically, it’s one person’s own experiences that lead to their reactions in life at anything. Dismantling them into “meanings” or assumptions is the side of us as we become uncomfortable onlookers and need “Blame” and “responsibility” to protect us from being capable of doing the exact same things.
The people who have been drawn to the sport in the post 2010 era have been fortunate enough to see whole upheavals in the rules many times over. We have done more studies, seen far fewer loses, but sadly we do keep having loses, and overall the out of the box thinkers who are able to think of ways to make the sport safer have been shown the red carpet to engage to try to keep the sport alive and in the quadrennial Olympic cycle.
I can’t count how many times I have heard the sport will not survive. I’m 53, started eventing in 1984 and truly we have faced “doom” so many times over. But for my own 2 cents, I do believe Social media and public outrage will likely be a bigger threat than the horse deaths.
(Not trying to debate this point so much as to say that imo, this is our biggest active threat that has the most “teeth” in my time spent in/alongside the sport)
FWIW, my eyes watching Calvin’s ride through Pete’s hollow yielded the following thoughts,
“(as Phanty left too soon and nipped the back rail of the second triple bar) Ughhh… (Landed, didn’t ‘roll’ to be an FEI fall) OH wow. (Then watched Calvin sit perfectly still and Phanty clearly was like ‘yea time to get back on my feet’, and they cantered off) YAY!”
Sinead and Kyle 100% reflected what I was thinking. Did I watch the next 2 fences to see how he was holding up and how he jumped? HELL yes. But I rewatched his whole round since and I remain impressed by the character of the horse and its clear enjoyment doing this sport.
I think the bottom line to the reactions herein is this:
We have people who understand that a sport with horses has unpredictable moments that are without negative or positive influence and react accordingly that flukes are flukes and you ride it through as an onlooker and hope for the best. We have folks that understand the above but would like to see human intervention at the moment when the lack of predictability has ended and the duo are back in control, to assess if all is actually ok. Noble thought, not a bad concept but not sure they’re factoring in the frosted mirror like glaze that adrenaline can produce to cover actualities in the immediate aftermath of a “thing.” Then we have a group who I don’t know that I would call fans of the sport. I think they watch pre-loaded to spring onto any perceived ‘failure’ and paint the picture as willful malice towards the poor innocent horse.
I thank everyone for their thoughts. I have researched the Tevis Cup and while it’s interesting and more recent results traumatic for all involved, I cannot think that any horse sport will ever get to 0 fatalities in it’s participants inclusive of training and competing times, and if that’s the case in dressage then for sure walking along cliffs in the nighttime has no hope.
The world is not a padded room. We do not exist in a vacuum and if we cannot keep humans from fatal accidents of all freakish natures, I am not sure why we seem unable to comprehend that freakish moments (not even fatalities) would not befall all parts of life?
Life is truly what you make of it. I don’t want to ever lose a horse under my care, but I have. A lightning bolt, a synovial cyst that grew inside of C6 and rendered the horse completely neuro and a broken leg in the field. Stuff happens in life.
We’re not even touching on all the ways I have injured myself and tested the amount of time I get to walk this planet. It really becomes, for me, a moment to decide do I want to live life and do my best as a human with all the things I value and care about and be a better person by watching others mistakes and enacting change in my own life so I do not act in ways that they have, that led to perceived mistakes? Or do I want to waste what time I have fighting the fight against others to try to explain their flaws in judgement. Based on my past posting it’s clear that answer used to be I wanted to try to explain how the moral and logic compasses for others were off. But moreover now, I want to ride. Idiots gonna be idiots and I can’t expect others to want to change their view if it’s what THEY believe. I just hope not to have their vitriol pointed at me.
Might be interesting if eventing became like the Masters this year and all phones were banned on course. The players and onlookers raved how it was nice to detach from the world and be able to enjoy the sport instead of Jane Doe’s private life and a thousand cell phone camera clicks distracting players in their swings.
Em
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I saw it and didn’t think it was particularly bad. My horse took a far worse tumble in the pasture and popped back up–we’ve all seen horses (in person or on film) crash through fences or flip themselves on grass while playing. This looked no worse and in fact far less dramatic than pretty much any of those. I would have understood the choice to stop, the choice to assess, the choice to flag him down, and I understand the choice to continue–and I think any one of those could have been the correct choice. Calvin knows the horse, and he felt the horse was fine. Subsequent veterinary inspections and a clean showjumping round bore out that he was right.
The second incident without the first would be a “bad moment”. It wouldn’t have raised eyebrows. However, they look like they are caused by similar riding choices re: striding to that type of jump, and I think it might have exposed a weakness in the training program (I mean, I am not one to judge his riding, but purely on paper). So maybe, like at any event, he went home with homework–only in his case, the DR means it was externally assigned and will be externally assessed. I don’t think that’s wrong. I don’t DISAGREE with the choice to give him the DR, but more for the choices to take the long spots / the riding that got him there than for the incidents in and of themselves. It feels a bit harsh, but not unreasonable.
What bothers me is 1) the optics, of course, and 2) the fact that it was internet chatter that caused the retroactive decision.
Horse welfare should be a priority, and as I said, if they had pulled him up at any point, that would have been a fine decision. I think even Calvin would agree with that. But the horse welfare was not why Calvin was penalised. He was penalised for the optics to silence the Kaizer / Milestone / whoever else folks. I think we don’t do ourselves any favours in building a culture that worries more about optics than about what the vets say or that bows to the pressures of those who say horses can’t be athletes, can’t be pushed (not in the excessive pressing sense, but in the work-up-a-sweat sense), can’t ever take a funny step without needing a CT scan or an MRI.
Just my thoughts. Calvin has a good reputation in Germany.
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If you want to ban any sort of social media criticism of a sport, then you’d not only have to ban cell phones, you’d have to ban any sort of televised footage, including the online stream every year. Then not have any sort of filmed recap. Or if you play a recap, carefully edit out any less than perfect rides or jumps.
The assumption that the officials responded to social media pressure can’t be proven unless you know an official. There have been many yellow cards or written warnings given after the fact. Or it could have been given same day and the media response was later.
I have seen social media outrage over a girl cantering her pony bareback, social media outrage covers every type of riding ever. I don’t think that we can control it, I do think we can take steps to show that our sport wants to be safe. Which I think we have.
I do think massive social media outrage of “abuse” that isn’t abuse is just as bad as massive social media outrage of social media outrage. For example, Maude’s post.
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You have absolutely no idea that this is true. For all you know, the officials were discussing a warning before this rider even reached this fence, and debated pulling the rider up after this fence. Unless you know someone who was standing next to an official, or an official themselves, you are making this assumption with no facts. This is not the first warning that was issued after an event was over or that we just heard about. It happens all the time. They could give someone a warning same day and issue the media response later.
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No-one is talking about that. Just pointing out that social media is primarily an uninformed echo chamber and will stay that way without reasonable outreach and education. Having said that- there are many, many people paid or otherwise who do nothing but post on SM all day long 365 days a year and they do tend to drown everyone else out, no matter how insane or willfully misinformed they are.
I can’t tell you how many documentaries I’ve watched on my area of scientific expertise and just thought “yep, humans deserve to be wiped, we are morons. I hope it happens before we kill the last rhinos and tigers so nature can recover.” I had to cancel my netflix subscription.
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I’ve read through this entire thread - am I so old that no one else here remembers Le Samurai? Who after stumbling, finished the course on adrenaline and then came through the finish lines with his clearly demolished leg swinging in the air? I cannot remember how long ago that was, and I can still see the horrific image plain as day in my mind. And the internet bullying and shaming she got afterwards was brutal
This is why people like Tamie Smith pull up the second they feel anything amiss. Why you take a beat and trot for a moment to ensure the horse is sound. I don’t think “well foxhunters fall all the time and get back up blah blah blah” is a good rationalization for not acting in the horse’s best interest while eventing.
You know when barrel racers are saying they are tough on their horses, but to continue after that fall would never have been tolerated in their events, you probably aren’t on the right side of things.
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The 90s and early 2000s were the absolute nadir of eventing for me. I walked away and so did many friends, many of whom were actively competing at prelim and above. So many horrible accidents, unsafe courses, unsafe riders and so much emphasis on making teams and being competitive. That period gutted the sport, imho.
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It’s my understanding, confirmed by multiple people in this thread, that the warning/yellow card is issued AT THE EVENT to the rider, but the public just doesn’t see it until it makes its way to the online database a day or a few later. So, this statement is almost certainly untrue. I think many many FEI/USEF choices over many years would confirm they do not make decisions based on internet chatter 
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That is a gross exaggeration of the incident, but a good representation of the bullying and misinformation Amy faced. Your claims about Amy’s tragic and premature death are also inaccurate, speculative and entirely inappropriate.
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I am using this as a jumping off point as I think we need to be careful about how we think about the past. In the past, we did not have social media, we did not have immediate coverage of sports where we can see things real time and assess for ourselves. We were seeing edited versions.
There is also the phenomena of Declinism - or seeing the past through rose-colored glasses. How many horses died that we did not know about? Who would have known the Calvins of before? If you watch the historical videos, you see royalty or Eventing royalty, yes, Shiela Wilcox is there at only 20 but she’s there as a shining star of eventing that took OVER when women were first allowed in eventing. There was a lot of uniqueness about her that made her stand out. But the male equivalent doing reasonably well at that level? Nowhere to be seen until he’s won a time or two because he’s not unique.
Look at what is written on Wikipedia about the Olympics in Mexico in 1968 - “two horse deaths” as almost a footnote. How many of those horses completed stadium the next day? How many were permanently injured? USEF/FEI didn’t really start tracking injuries and falls until around the turn of this century.
There was also a lot less emphasis on horse health and more emphasis on “toughness”. If you review some of the videos I posted and some others of historical eventing footage, you will see much worse, or potentially much worse than Calvin’s incident. The comments I heard are not in any way related to horse health/worry about horse health but toughness or bad luck - such as “isn’t that eventer tough” or “bad luck he got all the way to the 5* and had a fall”.
I remember one incident where Princess Ann got upset because she told her crew if she fell off she was done for the day. She fell off, apparently told her crew she was fine so they helped her back on, and she didn’t remember the rest of the course. She most likely said she was fine and didn’t remember the course because she had a concussion but this incident occured in the lates 70’s/early 80’s and we knew a lot less, she was never diagnosed.
I also caution looking at a horse getting up and running off as “eager to continue” because horses are prey animals and it is known that if they are scared/injuried/compromised, they tend towards wanting to run because that’s their instinct. So a horse getting up and running off is not necessarily indicative of being fine.
I will touch on Le Samurai for a moment - not to say anything negative about Amy Tryon as humans can also make mistakes with adrenaline running through them. I am speaking about the modern social media aspect of it. How many Le Samurai’s were there before we had instant access to see rides, review rides, etc.? I was talking to someone about this when it happened and she had something similar happen - her upper level event horse bowed both front tendons but she didn’t know about it until after cross country when the adrenaline cooled on both of them. But that happened before internet (and at a lower level that was less likely to be streamed) so the general public - even general horse public was not looking on. Were not able to rewind and rewatch to see what was going on. The general horse public was able to ascertain that the horse did not jump the next day BECAUSE of this. How many times in the past was the story “oh horse didn’t feel right so we didn’t jump” when it really was a catastrophic injury not a sore foot from a lost shoe?
So yes, we do need to continue to strive to do better but I think we just need to caution this perception that the “good old days” ever existed and use them to say today’s sport is on a downward spiral.
I do think most likely the best thing Calvin could have done (hindsight and all that) was to post a statement saying maybe he didn’t realize the extent of the horse fall until someone showed him the replay and then he immediately had a vet assess the horse to determine if it was good to jump the next day. But we all know better actions after the fact.
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Unfortunately, it is not a gross exaggeration of the “incident.” I saw the whole thing real-time.
With that said, I’m happy to edit/soften my post re: the rest of it, but now that you’ve quoted it I am unable to do so.
I have all the empathy in the world for Amy and her family and the whole thing was all around incredibly sad. We all make mistakes, and my point stands that the repercussions from that one were incredibly tragic. Which is why riders should take the time to check on their horses after something like a fall, bad step, etc, before continuing on.
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So did I. “…leg swinging in the air” is simply not true. Nor is much of the rest, and I quoted it for context because it is indicative of your inaccurate, ill-informed and judgmental speculation about of the situation.
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I am going to touch on something else and that’s the concept of “toughness”. Someone in another thread mentioned an NFL player that has multiple concussions and shows signs of lingering brain injuries to the point where coaches on other teams said he should be benched. The individual in the other thread said he’s “tough” because he keeps playing.
He’s not tough…he’s cognitively impaired, he doesn’t know how else to earn a living, he feels a need to prove himself, he’s competitive and can’t stand the thought of not being on the top…something else.
I think as a society, we need to really start letting go of the idea that people that do these things are “tough”. They have a different mindset - part of Calvin’s reasoning to keep going may have been a mindset to complete the course but that doesn’t make him tough.
I caution this because “tough” is often, in society as a whole, seen as a positive, as something to aspire to. Everything from the “tough” women that helped NASA build a spacecraft to get the US to the moon to an individual pulling someone from a burning building.
Continuing to play through injury of self or others (horses, team members) is NOT tough.
For Eventing, yes it came from cavalry. the original concept of “over, through or under, as long as you get to the other side” came from the need to get away from the enemy, get the dispatch where it needs to go - the risk to life and limb if you don’t.
But there is nothing in today’s eventing that requires that. There is no “toughness” in continuing on.
I remember some people criticising Buck Davidson for pulling up his veteran 5* horse at Kentucky several years ago because the horse just “didn’t feel right”.
There were also some criticisms of individuals that scratched from Fairhill because of the deluge of rain.
The people that criticized in these two scenarios is that the particular eventers were not as “tough” or lost their “toughness”. That’s where I caution people in speaking of tough - not wanting to do something you don’t have to do does NOT mean you aren’t tough, it means you have the choice now.
The eventers back in the day weren’t “tougher” than the ones today - they were less knowledgeable .
I just wanted to touch on this because I always cringe when I see someone use the word “tough” in this regard.
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According to the news articles and the statement from her family, her death was determined to be an accidental overdose due to combining several medications after an injury. Are you privy to some alternative information that it was found to be intentional, or just making the leap based on the sequence of events or gossip?
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I wondered why he wasn’t held on course by the stewards. Tim Price was stopped (and then allowed to continue) because someone thought there was blood on his horse. In comparison, Phantom’s fall looked much more concerning to me and I thought he should have been examined then, but certainly after the second stumble. He has been penalized by the FEI for dangerous riding, but that came after the event was done.
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I agree.
These horses are also trained over the course of years and years that their job on cross country is to keep going and look for the next jump. The horses would not be competing at the top level if they had not learned that lesson well.
So even if they are not 100%, those horses will most likely do their best to continue, since they have been conditioned to do that throughout their careers.
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I was present with the officials and I do not think #2 is true. Of course, I am just a peon and have no authority to speak on what I witnessed nor was anything explicitly discussed with me. But the riders given sanctions received a lot of official scrutiny post-XC. I have a feeling these decisions were made well in advance of when the press got ahold of the news.
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Really, really well stated.
I too cringe when I hear being tough thrown around like a badge of honor. It’s very far off from that. It does seem to have a generational component to it as well.
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