Thank you for saying this, Em.
6 Likes
I remember that. I remember being horrified that she didn’t pull up. I remember so many people yelling for her to stop. Amy was a wonderful person and a good horseman, but I think she was caught up in the adrenalin rush.
The OP’s last post was good, and I was nodding my head agreeing until I caught myself and said No. This sounds like that damn ‘kick on’ crap. And I believe that’s the mentality that needs to change.
Being told that the horse was doing what it loves to do always gets my eyes rolling in my head. If horses could talk I guarantee not one would say they’d love to be training and competing in any sport rather than just being a horse. It’s a mistake to say the energy of fit horses shows how much they love galloping and jumping.
But I’m not an eventer so my opinion is shite. I’m just one of many people that won’t watch racing or eventing live because they don’t want to see another horse go down.
17 Likes
Really? I didn’t take that away from it at all.
3 Likes
I wish I could “like” your post many times over!
3 Likes
Ok - but some actually really do. Some are even competitive w/ others.
Just as an example:
Long time ago, a friend of mine and I were on our two OTTBs out for a hack on a nice wide lane. We picked up a canter - just to canter. I could feel my mare size up the competition - she actually pinned her ears. Her horse did the same. Pretty soon we were going way way faster than either of us, the riders, actually wanted to go. It was pretty funny and it took us a bit to rein them back in. It was a horsey throw-down.
7 Likes
I’ve been lurking on this thread w/o commenting - I started following eventing around 2011-12 as a fan & aspiring eventer (when I still had horses in my life consistently) and have learned (some) of it’s history just from trying to be a total horse knowledge sponge in that era. Not going to pretend to be an expert and I’ve refrained from chiming in b/c I don’t feel I have much to contribute, didn’t see the incident itself, don’t want to deal with the headache of people thinking they know everything trying to shout others down online, and know when I don’t have the knowledge needed to contribute.
But while lurking, I saw this and want to say thank you for this thoughtful post.
5 Likes
On the point of toughness. I consider myself tough and my horses also pretty tough because I’ve built their “toughness” through years of long, slow training and conditioning. To me that means things like they can walk, trot, canter 50+ miles safely, soundly and feel still ready to go at the end. What it does NOT mean to me is that they should continue on stoically through an injury. And I hope to all that is holy, that I recognize the difference. But I do what I do for fun- 10+ years ago, I decided to step away from the professional horse world because I honestly didn’t like the direction so much of it was going in. The pressure to be perfect was unreal, esp with deep pocket owners that thought $$ should be able to dictate how fast/ well a horse did in training and competition. So I guess what I’m saying is that would I have pulled up? Yes because I am uber sensitive about such things. But do I understand why that rider didn’t pull up? Also yes. And if the horse was fine, deemed sound and went on to finish the event then I suppose that one can pull out the old all’s well that ends well.
In reality, we can look at every aspect of what we do with horses under the microscope of should we do this. But who gets to draw the line of what is okay and what isn’t? I’m not talking about 100% blatantly obvious abuse. Who gets to say that going around a 3* is fine but a 5* isn’t or a 1.3 m jumper class is okay but puissance is a no go?
14 Likes
Yes!
What is “fine” in one person’s eyes might be seen as completely wrong to someone else.
And when we try to make a concrete definition for “right” and “wrong,” we hit a lot of gray areas that do not fit perfectly into either category.
I do not have the personality (or talent lol) for upper level competition myself. But the fact that upper level competition exists benefits me as a non-competitive horse person. Without competition, there isn’t much to drive equine research and welfare. Without competition, we wouldn’t have the variety we see in the horse world. There would be no incentive to improve/create “breeds,” there would be no incentive to improve/create styles of riding, etc. There would be no incentive to advance medicine, farriery, nutrition…
But competition ultimately brings out the worst in a small percentage of people. So how do we address that fact fairly while preserving competition? That’s the big question.
20 Likes
Commenting only information I have come to learn as an upper level rider. The fall itself and how the horse felt are not my primary concerns, things happen like this in the field or lunge and horses leap up fine. Getting to this level of competition requires a certain level of feel to where CB could easily tell at the canter if the horse was off even in the slightest, and I believe he would have pulled up if he felt off. Would I have made the same choice, no. BUT I think the actual concern here is the ground jury. The fall happened because, whether and off day or not, they were not having a good round. Multiple instances of CB falling forward, horse having to show freak athleticism due to being out of balance/wrong speed. The rider should have had to merit to say “this is a difficult horse and today I don’t have the rideability,” but the ground jury is in place to compensate for riders/horses running on adrenaline while at an event they have worked years for who don’t make the right choice that day. The fall was reflective of the dangerous round and whether it was a fall wouldn’t matter if they had pulled him up. People would not be up in arms if they could say the rider made a mistake today but the ground jury had the horse covered. Also wanted to chime in that a commentator should not be put on blast; they are making live, public statements and shaming a rider is not the direction we want to go. The sport is entirely too fragile to continue without something in place to much more often say this isn’t your day, work at it and try again.
39 Likes
I think there is a difference and one must not extrapolate to much.
Can horses be competitive with each other? Yes
Do some horses LOVE jumping? Yes
Do some horses LOVE dressage? Yes
Do some horses LOVE cutting cows? Yes
By “love” I mean they enjoy it, they look for jumps/do dressage out in the field/cut cows when not asked or look to cut cows
My friend owns an old cutting cow and they just trail ride but acquired a few cows at one point and that horse’s ears pricked, focused turned and his entire personality changed when friend decided to have fun and try to use him to help herd the cows.
Your horses yes, liked to run, that’s fine. My horse likes to jump, will look for jumps, gets annoyed with me sometimes when we are turning and she thought we were going towards a particular jump and don’t. She’s not dreaming of the Olympics, though.
What your horses did wasn’t much different than two kids daring each other to get to the other side of the parking lot first but neither one necessarily wants to be a track star, they just like running - just like Thoroughbreds are more likely to want to be out front - wanting to be out front is what is bred into a race horse that makes it a good race horse, BUT…if out front is a lope, MOST thoroughbreds aren’t going to go out on a full gallop anyway, they are just going to lope a little faster.
BUT - in NONE of these scenarios is the horse thinking “I MUST win and when I win here, I want to move up the levels and win there.” OR “I want to go to Kentucky 5*/the Olympics/The Preakness”. None are saying “I want to be the next Triple Crown winner!”
That’s the distinction we should always remember - yes, horses bred to do things will like to do those things and regardless of breeding you should always want your horse to like doing the thing you want to do. BUT, that doesn’t mean they have high dreams, we are putting them in that situation.
So when we talk about taking a horse around a 5* course because “they enjoy it”, I caution that we should remember the horse may like jumping/cross country but a-it doesn’t know how long the course is so if you pull up halfway through, it’s fine. b-it doesn’t care that it’s at the peak of the sport.
19 Likes
I appreciate this perspective and I agree that the officials could have done a better job of advocating for the horse in the moment. While I don’t condemn CB for continuing in this specific instance, I also think that the rider retains responsibility for his/her own safety and that of the horse while on course. The ground jury and other officials provide guard rails, but no one should set out on a course with the attitude that it’s ok to continue until pulled up, and that if anything were “really wrong” the ground jury would step in in time. Riders can (or should be able to) feel things that the ground jury cannot see – even as it is also true that adrenaline may mask what they feel! – can assess how much control they have on a given day, and most importantly, are in a position to react more quickly to the ground jury, who cannot be physically present at every fence jumped by every rider and cannot instantly stop a galloping horse. Protecting horses is a shared responsibility of officials, course designers, etc., but riders retain a – I would say the – key role and while this is not intended as a critique of CB, I also don’t think we should fault the ground jury and fully excuse him.
2 Likes
Exactly, which is my point. Riders have the responsibility, but doesn’t mean their standard of what is acceptable execution is okay. Any rider can tell/feel everything you mention, it just doesn’t mean it would lead to pulling up. Of all the people watching this round, the rider knew he lacked control, balance, and accuracy but did nothing, so this is where my original point begins. As a spectator or supporter of this sport, the ground jury is your only means to something being done to protect the horse as you think, “this round is scary.” When the rider doesn’t do it, someone should, and we should have a system in place where the horse can be pulled up within a minute. No rider is ever going to rely on a ground jury to keep them safe, but no one who would ever be a concern would ever set out on course with that attitude. I was not excusing him, but I am saying relying on an adrenaline-filled kid, or any other rider who would feel okay with the quality of this performance, to make the right decision is not safe. He made the wrong choice and the ground jury then failed him. I’m just saying horse protection/wellfare through the FEI (aka the ground jury) should not be confined to jogs and there needs to be an acceptable standard of riding.
10 Likes
I am wondering through all this discussion of horse welfare that no mentions a horse that trailered 8-9 hours from home to lexington and then repeated that trip in reverse, and a week later will be put on a plane for a 7-8 plane flight to london.
That is not exactly a vacation experience for the horse.
8 Likes
Is anyone actually doing that?
That is to say, in order to compete soon, not just to head home?
1 Like
I believe they’re referring to Jennie - she ran 5-6 min of the 5* XC and then retired. She’s said she’s re-routing to Badminton next weekend.
1 Like
Sounds like Jennie Brannigan is rerouting FE Lifestyle to Badminton after she had the early stop on course at Kentucky. This is probably what they’re referencing
Thanks for the information.
Absolutely agreed. I was reacting to this:
I completely agree that the ground jury has a role and should be empowered and expected to play it.
3 Likes
Do not disagree w/ you at all. I was just pointing out that there are horses who really do love running and jumping and therefore, in my mind, asking a horse to run and jump who enjoys it is not inherently abusive. However, it most definitely can be.
2 Likes
All of this. Anyone who thinks CB was awarded the warning due to just the incident at the hollow (or much less, the social media outrage following) was not/is not grasping the context of his full ride. He wasn’t just given the DR warning due to that fall-but-not-really-a-fall. Nearly the whole round was uncomfortable to watch and he was dang lucky things didn’t end up worse for him and his obviously lovely horse.
21 Likes
