Thomas and other Coaching enthusiasts...

[EasterEgg]

Thought you might find this interesting!

I steward at our county show (The Suffolk Show - http://www.suffolkshow.co.uk/programme_of_events), and have just found out that I’ve been assigned to an interesting class this year.

On day 2 of the show the coaching class will take the form of The Cock Horse Class - this class apparently hasn’t been run in the UK since the 1940’s. Richard James, the editor of Carriage Driving Magazine has decided to try and revive it and has chosen the Suffolk Show to run it for the first time.

From the prize schedule:

"In this class the cock horse (postillion ridden in correct uniform) should be ridden into the ring separately and before the coach, the coach should then enter the ring.

The hornblower or guard on the coach in the meantime signals the approaching of a coach to ‘the public house’, indicating that the coach needs the services of a cock horse and postillion.

The cock horse should then be hitched on in front of the coaching team leaders; the coach should then be driven round the ring with the cock horse (postillion ridden) in draft, while the hornblower plays more calls and tunes. After one circuit the cock horse should be unhitched.

The class will be judged on the turnout of the cock horse and postillion, the correct traditional cock horse harness, the method of hitching and unhotching the cock horse and team, the riding ability of the postillion and co-ordination between postillion and coachman."

I don’t know a huge amount about driving or coaching (working hunter ponies are more my area of ‘expertise’) so I’m really looking forward to this one - I shall press my mother and husband into service on the photography front so that I can post some pictures for you after the event.

Obviously none of the show stewards and management know what to expect so it could be an interesting experience!

Thomas - if you have any further information about cock horses I’d be very grateful if you could share - I’m trying to find out as much as possible beforehand! Also, the judge is Baron Christian de Langlade of France - do you know of him?

Thanks in advance for any info you can give me

[Thomas_1]

I was reading about that somewhere a few weeks ago. I can’t remember if it was the BDS newsletter or Carriage Driving Magazine or even if it was when I was speaking to Richard.

He’s just done me a “favour” by putting in a small article about a London Trolly I’m selling on behalf of a charity.

Its great to see the old traditions are not being totally lost and are being recreated in the coaching and showing world.

Have you seen the letters page in carriage driving this week? It explains where the term “cock horse” comes from and shows a photo of a cock horse properly tacked and mounted under saddle but with its driving collar, britching and traces ready to be put to and as required for road coaching.

I never knew Baron de Casier well but I’ve met him and talked to him and know about the memorial trophy his family have just brought in to sponsor for coaching classes.

There was a large feature about him in one of the recent magazines which I could let you have a copy of if you want? Presumably though its a relative of THE Baron Casier that I know of that is judging??? The one I know of died just last January and following an accident.

Basically the coaching cock horse was ridden in impeccable turnout as required for gentleman’s coaching and when required for instance when extra “pulling power” was needed then the horse was put to and to help the coach to say get up a hill. Its the reason why in England there’s so many pubs at the bottoms or tops of hills called “The Cock Horse”

I’m sure you know the poem “Ride a Cock Horse to Banbury Cross”

Ride a cock horse to Banbury Cross
To see a fine lady upon a white horse
With rings on her fingers and bells on her toes
She shall have music wherever she goes

The origins of the poem are said to be that Banbury was situated at the top of a steep hill and in order to help carriages up that a white cock horse (a large stallion) was made available by the town’s council. Its rumoured that when the Queen’s carriage attempted to go up the hill a wheel broke and the Queen chose to mount the cock horse and ride to the Banbury cross. The people of the town had decorated the cock horse with ribbons and bells and provided minstrels to accompany her - “she shall have music wherever she goes”.

[EasterEgg]

Thanks for your kind reply Thomas

I haven’t read Carriage Driving magazine - this little foray into the world of driving is a new one for me and one that I only found out about on friday evening! I will look out for a copy though - that letters page sounds worth a look.

The judge is Baron Christian de Langlade who I think is or was chef d’equipe of the Belgian driving team.

My other classes are the ridden hunters and the side saddle/concours d’elegance classes, so I should have an interesting couple of days - it’s nice to do something different.

I just hope this weather holds out - the show has been cold, wet and miserable for the last couple of years so we must be due a nice one.

Will definitely try to get some pictures to post!

Thanks again.

[Thomas_1]

Baron Casier was indeed the doyen of driving in Belgium and started their driving association but he died in January aged 99.

I know though he has family that drives because one of the great stories about him is that on his 90th birthday his family organised a surprise party and arranged for him to be picked up by a coach and four in hand but he surprised the lot be driving up himself in a four in hand. So I’m thinking it must be his oldest son that’s inherited the title.

You have to order Carriage Driving as a subscription magazine.

http://www.carriage-driving.com/cgi-bin/go.pl/subscribe/index.html

[whoopdeedo]

Thank you for such interesting information about carriage driving. I wish your letter could be posted in a newspaper here in the States to educate us more on driving.
This being National Carriage Driving month here in the States, it would make a most interesting article. May I quote you Thomas, should I write an article to the Palm Beach Post here in Florida? especially in reference to the poem and the origins of “cock horse”?
It would be a miracle if it did stir interest with the newspaper editors, unfortunately.

[Ainsley]

Thomas, you are a wealth of knowledge. I remember thinking (while my daughter was reciting) that the “ride a cockhorse” poem must have some truth behind it. How very interesting.

Here are 2 pictures of a cock horse turned out. They are taken at the Canadian Carriage Driving Classic in about 1998. The coach is the Private Road Coach “Old Sport” and is driven by Mr. Jack Braithwaite. The horses are all imported Irish Sport horses ranging in age from 3 to 6 and owned by Dr. G.R. Cormack.

Thomas, I would love to hear your feedback on the turnout of the cock horse in particular. On the occasion when the pictures were taken, they won the turnout class. The same turnout then went on to win the turnout class at the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto, Ontario (with a different cock horse). In both cases, the cock horse was required to be “put to” and do one lap of the arena then line back up.

A real learning experience for me! Enjoy.
Jennifer

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1129690888054478973ZPMjHL
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1129691645054478973flBNFx

[nj2]

Beautiful pictures - thanks for sharing

Amazing to be able to say this, but the size of the cock horse in the second picture actually makes the road coach look (dare I say) small

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Ainsley;3229960]
Thomas, I would love to hear your feedback on the turnout of the cock horse in particular. [/QUOTE]

Definitely VERY different to the livery in the UK. I’ll have a trawl around this weekend and find you some photos of what its like here.

[Equibrit]

Alternative theories!

http://www.rhymes.org.uk/ride_a_cock_horse.htm
http://childrens-verse.suite101.com/article.cfm/ride_a_cock_horse

[Ainsley]

Thomas, I would love to see more pictures if you are able to find them. Please do share when you have a moment.

nj2: You know, I never really looked, but you are right: the cock horse does make the coach look small. I think it is probably an illusion (maybe caused by the horse being closer to the camera than the coach?). The white horse was actually a leader for this coaching team and was taken out as he is a good inch or two smaller than the smallest horse in the team. Just to give you a reference point, Glen Purple (the cock horse) is about 16.2 and Kory (the left wheeler - dark grey) is all of 17.2hh.

Thank you for your compliments, an I am looking forward to seeing your pictures Thomas.

Jennifer

[goodhors]

[QUOTE=Ainsley;3232051]
nj2: You know, I never really looked, but you are right: the cock horse does make the coach look small. I think it is probably an illusion (maybe caused by the horse being closer to the camera than the coach?). The white horse was actually a leader for this coaching team and was taken out as he is a good inch or two smaller than the smallest horse in the team. Just to give you a reference point, Glen Purple (the cock horse) is about 16.2 and Kory (the left wheeler - dark grey) is all of 17.2hh.
/QUOTE]

I have heard of wearing dark colors making you appear slimmer, but never smaller! Though the grey sure does look like the little horse, with the white horse in the forefront. Fun with cameras!

Thank you for showing us the photos, very nice to see the effort expended to be correct in their turnout.

[Thomas_1]

found one…

[

[EasterEgg]

Hmmm… Possibly being a bit simple here (and I’ll be the first to admit that my driving knowledge is very limited) but I can’t see how the livery in the picture Ainsley posted is so very different from the one Thomas posted? Apart from the beagler vs. top hat I can’t see any major differences.

Can someone with a bit more knowledge enlighten me?

[Ainsley]

Easter, I would love to hear what Thomas has to say as I am thinking along the same lines as you. I see a few minor differences: the buttons on the jacket are different and the helmet/tophat differ. Other than that, I think the livery is very similar: black boots with brown toppers, white pants (breeches), similar style of jacket. The horses are even turned out nearly identically except that mine has his rope attached to my saddle.

Thomas, if I am missing something, please educate me. I love learning about all of this stuff and I will be the first to admit that there are so many tiny details that make or break a turnout, I will never know all of them.

I love the picture you posted Thomas. If you have more, I would love to see them.

Thank you
Jennifer

[Ainsley]

Ok, I see a couple other things: gloves are a bit different, the cuffs on the jackets are also definitely different.

I will keep looking to see what else I find. In the meantime, please feel free to add anything else that you may find that I have missed.

Thanks
Jennifer

[EasterEgg]

Yep, I can see what you mean now Ainsley. I think it was Thomas’ “VERY different” comment that threw me. I can see the subtle differences - obviously they stand out more when you know what you’re looking for!

[Thomas_1]

So already mentioned are:

hat, collar, coloured cuffs, gloves, bling button arrangments.

Then we have:
USA: saddle is attached to the collar as per a hunting breastplate arrangement. Traces are coiled up and carried

The fundamental thing though is that a cock horse rider would never be female.

[Ainsley]

Thomas, thank you for weighing in again.

I do agree with some of what you said, but not with others. Firstly, the “never be female” comment…you are so right. But, since I did all of the under saddle training and there were no men available who could/would do the job (this horse was a VERY hot individual who was very hard to ride) we had to live with me riding.

The saddle is not an American saddle: in fact, it was brought over from the UK with a prior load of imported coach horses. Can’t remember exactly where it was made. The breast plate is not actually attached to the collar at all. I will concede that it should not be there at all, but without it the saddle slipped really badly. Since we also did a 15 mile road trip that day after the ring class, it was imperative that the saddle stayed in place. So, my hunting style breastplate was the most minimal style I could find that would still do the job. It is on under the collar, attached to the saddle only.

The traces are not coiled up. They go from the collar through the trace carriers and are then attached to the lead bar behind the horse as (I believe) is correct. The only thing coiled is the rope that goes from the lead bar to the pole head.

Thanks again and please feel free to keep commenting.

Jennifer

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Ainsley;3237534]
The saddle is not an American saddle: in fact, it was brought over from the UK[/QUOTE] I meant USA photo… I can see its an English saddle.

Firstly, the “never be female” comment…you are so right
When I do film work, my grooms have to tuck all their hair well out of the way and adopt a male stance to disguise the fact they’re all very attractive young ladies. (Coaching grooms were never female either.)

The breast plate is not actually attached to the collar at all. I will concede that it should not be there at all, but without it the saddle slipped really badly.
I thought it was on the collar. As you say though it shouldn’t be there at all.

[Ainsley]

Ha Ha Thomas, I guess I misread your comment about the english saddle. My apologies

Please tell your female grooms that have to look like boys: duct tape wrapped around your upper torso really helps eliminate a “womanly figure” I know this from experience… In the pictures I posted, I still look female, but I am actually rather well endowed and I am quite proud of how “flat” I seem to look. No bra out on the open market can control bounce quite like duct tape!! Also, my hair is actually all in the helmet (when down, it is below my shoulder blades.) Nobody ever did show me how to adopt a male stance, but if they had, I would happily have done it.

Thanks again for your comments. If you find any more pictures, I would love to see them.

Jennifer