Well actually either usingTB or not is avery big deal. Every time TB blood is used it further dilutes the warmblood bloodline from before the TB blood was used. The old time warmblood heritage can never be gotten back. Because of this the old time Gelderlander, Groninger, Holsteiner, Anglo Normand, Oldenburger, etc. have as good as disappeared from the face of the earth and there are people who care about that and Itotally understand that. And I think that those old bloodlines should be kept in existence for as much as possible.
[QUOTE=Elles;8505329]
Well actually either usingTB or not is avery big deal. Every time TB blood is used it further dilutes the warmblood bloodline from before the TB blood was used. The old time warmblood heritage can never be gotten back. Because of this the old time Gelderlander, Groninger, Holsteiner, Anglo Normand, Oldenburger, etc. have as good as disappeared from the face of the earth and there are people who care about that and Itotally understand that. And I think that those old bloodlines should be kept in existence for as much as possible.[/QUOTE]
I am not sure I quite get what you mean, but I feel some concepts are mixed up in this post:
TB have been used extensively for many very good reasons in the past in every “Warmblood” studbooks. Generally, breeders are not reluctant to use TB stallions by fear of losing the bloodlines. Although it is true that warmblood breeders will be very protective of their best dame line, most of the time those dame lines have been crossed with TB stallions already numerous times. The choise of using TB in a program is made to bring some specific traits when needed. Many breeders nowadays either do not consider that the traits a good TB can bring is lacking in their lines, cannot find the appropriate TB to fill their needs or consider that they can find what they want in WB stallions from dame lines they know and trust, without the compromises that generally come from breeding with a TB (that includes the saying that the TB kills the jump).
Regarding the example you give of the Gelderlander, and same could be said about other breeds like the Irish Draft, the Cleveland Bay or the Canadian, you are right that they want to protect those specific breeds from any dilution whatsoever, be it TB, Arabian, WB or anything else. Those issues in these breeds are more of a patrimonial nature than a performance nature.
[QUOTE=Cumano;8505199]
I don’t think anyone wants to start this fifty something pages debate all over again, but instead of saying that the opinion of a lot of very knowledgeable and respected breeders is BS, go read and try to understand the arguments. Then you can comment, and this time, with counterarguments instead of short sensless uninformed insults.[/QUOTE]
In all the threads where TB influence is discussed it’s always the same … All the European SB are looking for THE TB to take over from where Ladykiller, Marlon, Laudanum, Count Ivor have left.
On the other hand, to stop thinking on replacements, to stay in the past is counterpoint to all what breeding is about.
My views were already explained in threads here on this forum. I’m not interested in rehashing the same arguments all over again, essentially to not bore you. But be assured, using TB is not something that I preach but do not follow …
so here, even if it is a repetion of things said in other discussion(s) :
I have 3 older mares, all by a TB-sire out of the same HOL mother :
born 1995, by Sir Shostakovich xx
She competed under the saddle of teenage girl for 3 years, ISO 107
She brought me :
with Jaguar Mail in 2008, a filly, registered SF, finalist and 17th in the French Championship Free Cycle for 6Y old in Fontainebleau, ISO 119
with Jaguar Mail in 2009, a colt (gelding now), SF, still in preparation. He’s a horse with all what is needed (power, respect, technic, style, energy, etc). We have one problem with him : he doesn’t always use his hind legs like it is needed. For me, the problem is a bad trainer in the early years. That’s why I changed the rider / trainer.
with Quality Touch in 2011, a filly, SF. Came in 7th in the French Championship for 2Y old females (app French equivalent to the German Staatsprämienstutenschauen but, en plus, with a free jump) with best notes for freejumping.
This mare brought me a foal in 2015, sire is Iowa KWPN, qualified for the French Foal Championship.
I would like her to start competing 2016/17.
born 1996, by Sir Shostakovich xx
full sister to the mare born in 1995
She brought me :
with Alligator Fontaine in 2012, a filly, SF, finalist and 9th of the French Championship for 3Y old females (app French equivalent to the German Staatsprämienstutenschauen but, en plus, with a free jump).
I don’t know what to do with her at the moment. I don’t want to start training, considering she is not ‘adult enough / mature enoug’ : since september 2015 in Fontainebleau where she was measured at 163cm, she has grown app 5cm and still grows …
born 1998, by Parco xx
half sister to the Sir Shostakovich-mares mentionned aboveShe brought me :
with Iowa KWPN in 2011, a filly, SF, put down with a broken canon in 2/2012
She is in foal by Simplex xx, a TB-stallion, due late avril 2016.
