Putting the blood on top is the way many Europeans prefer to infuse TB blood, so while the choice of TB sire may be a bit unorthodox, crossing him to a WB broodmare may have been a sound strategy.
Following up on Northern Dancer in pedigrees of horses that are jumping, I did a quick search of pedigrees of great hurdlers and chasers and found the following:
Moscow Flyer winner of over 1 million pounds in a career that lasted at least 6 years was a grandson of Nijinsky.
Well Chief winner of over $600k in a career that lasted eight years I believe was a son of Night Shift. Night Shift was a Northern Dancer son out of the mare Ciboulette, making him a half sibling to the mare Fanfreleuche and a full brother to Barachois. In addition to producing Well Chief, Night Shift appears to have sired some advanced level eventers.
It is interesting to see a few examples of non-Saddlers Wells bred Northern Dancer offspring appearing to have long careers in a jumping discipline.
Lots of Northern Dancer in sport horses, if you consider eventing a sport. The folks down under have, IIRC, had good luck with Danzig lines, as have many NAs. I think one reason that the Germans may be willing to use Sadler’s Wells is because his female family is 5, which is a traditionally strong TB family in Germany. They have also been willing to have lines to Lyphard, Nijinsky, Nureyev, and a few others.
Be My Guest, an ND son, shows up a good bit in European pedigrees. He stood in Ireland I believe.
Personally, if I were breeding, I’d try and avoid Seattle Slew. Very low probability of high success. I would buy one that was already on the ground to ride.
Nijinsky was a very different type from his sire, taller, leggier and I would guess that he would be more appealing to sport breeders.
In general, if you are talking about a TB, odds are that there is some Northern Dancer there. I pulled up the entries for tomorrow at 3 tracks, Aqueduct, Gulfsteam and Tampa and looked at the first horse in the first race of each. All had ND at least once in 5 generations. One as close at G3, another inbred with 3 crosses. He’s everywhere.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8004574]
Lots of Northern Dancer in sport horses, if you consider eventing a sport. The folks down under have, IIRC, had good luck with Danzig lines, as have many NAs. I think one reason that the Germans may be willing to use Sadler’s Wells is because his female family is 5, which is a traditionally strong TB family in Germany. They have also been willing to have lines to Lyphard, Nijinsky, Nureyev, and a few others.
Be My Guest, an ND son, shows up a good bit in European pedigrees. He stood in Ireland I believe.
Personally, if I were breeding, I’d try and avoid Seattle Slew. Very low probability of high success. I would buy one that was already on the ground to ride.[/QUOTE]
Viney, just wondering the rationale re: Seattle Slew? Is he known to have offspring with soundness issues? If so, I am interested to know why race breeders would double up on this line? I ask this because I have a mare with SS top and bottom, so a deliberate attempt on the part of the breeder to double up on this line! She raced 36 times in 4 years and was a decently priced yearling at $47k. Just wondering your thoughts on this.
Seattle Slew was obviously a very talented race horse, so it makes sense for race breeders to try and “recreate” as much of him as possible. But it was well known that he was an inconsistent sire for race horses: he threw very good ones and he threw terrible ones without much middle.
In the beginning of his stud career, TBs were still common in the hunter ranks. Many of his get were tried in the arena, and almost none succeeded. IIRC, the problem was primarily with the brain. The horses were beautiful in the main, but just did not have the desire to jump. He is certainly not known as a sire of chasers, which would say something to me, given how long he stood. In some of the databases, you can pull up Seattle Slew and his get and see what their sport results were. For instance, A. P. Indy stood for close to twenty years, and one would think that some of his get would have filtered down to eventing at the very least. Well, they haven’t, even in the second and third generations. For the number of foals that Slew got, you’d think by now that if they were a particularly talented line in eventing, they would be all over pedigrees. They are not.
The Europeans do NOT want Slew line horses. That means that they have classified him as a dirt track horse line that they cannot use. If you believe, as I do, that TB sport horses are more likely to come from turf lines, that says a lot. Of course that may change in the future, but it’s certainly true now. The British and Irish racing folks did not want Bold Ruler either, and he’s a favorite sport line in NA. ON the other hand, they have fallen in love with Northern Dancer; and Mr. P is filtering in, mostly through mares, but some stallions. Slew just isn’t in their lines anywhere.
I keep looking for Slew top line 4* horses and, IIRC, haven’t found one yet. But that may change as well.
Thanks viney, this is the kind of info I am looking for. I get why people use thoroughbreds for their warmblood mares in general-to add blood and lighten them up. But why THIS stallion? Is there something I don’t see/know? It’s possible I may get more information today when I meet the seller
Great, thanks for that explanation Viney. It would be great if someone put together a compilation or database of popular TB sire lines (Northern Dancer, Seattle Slew, Mr. P, Buckpasser, etc.) and showed the proliferation of these lines in certain aspects of sport like jumping, eventing, dressage etc. For instance, one could search on ND and find XX horses that excelled in jumping, XX horses in dressage etc, along with an analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the line.
Perhaps we aren’t there yet in terms of accurate record keeping, but definitely something to think about.
I had a brain fart. There is one Slew son who was comparatively successful as a sport horse line, and that is Slew O Gold (out of the Buckpasser daughter, Alluvial). He had a son named Blaze O Gold out of a Sir Ivor mare who stood in the UK or Ireland and produced at least 4 4* horses a few years back. Two of those were out of the same mare. So that stallion definitely passed on good sport genes despite being Slew line.
And, IIRC, the Slew son Gold Meridian was liked for hunters, but my memory is a bit weak. It would have been a couple of decades ago.
The stallion Sea Lion has a line to Slew through Slew’s daughter, Glowing Honor. But the rest of his pedigree is packed with lovely sport horse lines (like Sir Ivor and Cannonade and. . .and…
Perhaps if you have both Slew and Sir Ivor, you have a better chance of getting a jumping horse. Sir Ivor is a WONDERFUL sport horse line.
If anybody is interested in seeing what Northern Dancer looked like. This is a picture of me with him when he was in his mid to late 20s I think and was retired from stud no long after this was taken.
Thanks for sharing Gumtree! What a great picture…small but mighty and oh so prolific. He truly was one in a million.
I didn’t realize he was so small but very nice looking and nicely marked as well.
Gumtree, one of those pictures to cherish for a lifetime.
Either you are a giant, Gumtree, or ND was standing on tiptoes when he was measured at 15’2. Looks closer to 15h to me.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8005913]
If anybody is interested in seeing what Northern Dancer looked like. This is a picture of me with him when he was in his mid to late 20s I think and was retired from stud no long after this was taken.
Great pic. I have a similar one, but you look much better in yours than I did in mine. 
He was something, wasn’t he. Small but VERY mighty.
For anyone that is interested in watching, I found a program done on Northern Dancer on youtube. It was a Biography channel production and its uploaded in 4 parts :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2FrZY4mjL4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NsgkXi-xXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLtpKHpRPTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyIPD161unw
I wouldn’t be so quick to give up on AP Indy for sport. While I’m a bit ambivalent about Slew, Weekend Surprise was a heck of a mare. I’ve sat on 4 AP Indy descendants, all are super sound, above average movers, and scope for at least 4’. My 7yr old by Silver Train shows strong AP influence, and he’s got the talent to go advanced in a few seasons…and be competitive on the flat too. Leah Lang Gluscic’s AP Prime is by Aptitude, and a successful Advanced horse.
From all the TB mares, foals, and yearlings I have known, I am always drawn to the AP Indy sireline. They tend to be smart, balanced, and athletic, and often too expensive to end up as sport horses. FWIW, I believed in the sireline enough to breed my own UL mare, a granddaughter of ND by the way, to a grandson of AP Indy.
