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Thoroughbreds in Dressage

Am already planning my next horse. (The idea with the current horse was to give him a good home and get the rust out of my horse skills.) Would like to do dressage on a Thoroughbred. Am going to do this anyway but thought that it would be nice to have a discussion about the subject and am genuinely curious to see what other people think.

It’s been done before all the way to GP, but that was decades ago. Event horses do dressage, and quite of a few of the UL horses have been TBs. Think of Clifton Promise and Arctic Soul.

My recommendation for a dressage competent TB is to find one with as much Hyperion as you can find. All of the “pure” dressage TBs and modern TB stallions used in dressage breeding have come from the Hyperion sireline, except for maybe one. Hyperion is sire line to to Bay Ronald, who was the primary TB founding stallion for the German WBs.

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ANY sound horse can do lower level dressage to at least 2nd level. It is also excellent training should you choose to dabble in other sports with your new horse.

All that being said, every breed has individuals who would do better at different disciplines. You would be better off looking for the right mind rather than the breed :slight_smile:

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Please forgive me, I am having a seriously unintelligent morning. Not sure what you meant as regards looking for the right mind rather than the breed.

Thanks for that. Not sure if we have those bloodlines in Australia. Was thinking of buying a lightweight, elegant horse. The type that would make a good show hack here in Australia. Or should I aim more for the Warmblood type of Thoroughbred?

In fairness, if you are doing straight dressage, you are looking at a war of attrition getting a TB to move as well as a WB. As much as I love TBs, the majority of them do not move well enough to be competitive against a WB once you get past 2nd level. If your goal is eventing, you’re looking at a different subset of horses, very few of which (even the WBs) move with the same suspension and elasticity of a dressage-bred WB.

If you are doing below 2nd level, the good news is there are good moving TBs out there, that can be competitive. What the TB has IMO that the WB does not is a lack of quit and try - while collection comes much easier to a WB, you can improve a horse’s way of going pretty tremendously if you work correctly over their backs and cavalettis.

I love my TBs - but as straight up dressage horses, they just do not compare to the truly-dressage bred WB in my front yard. My best moving TB could, if I really worked hard and carefully, probably do 2nd level very competitively – he is a brilliant mover… for a TB - but if he was a WB, he’d probably be a little better than average. He has a very powerful trot that has a lot of suspension and loft – but he lacks the natural elasticity of a dressage-bred WB. We can improve that elasticity, but only so much – meanwhile, the WB filly oozes elasticity… So it’s up to you - if you want to be competitive and go to the UL, you need a horse bred for that. If you want to enjoy the journey and see where it takes you, UL aspirations or not, a TB is appropriate. A very special TB, just like a very special WB, can get to the UL… but it’s not easy, and I argue it’s easier with a WB.

The one good thing is that despite TBs not being bred selectively for movement, they can and do still produce some good moving horses - some of which do end up in the upper rungs of the sport alongside their bred-for-the-sport counterparts.

Since you are working with AUS horses, the better moving ones tend to have Sadlers Wells/Galileo, Danzig, Double Jay and Hail To Reason. These stallions have seen a fair amount of success in AUS.

There are lots of TB sires out there that can put a “surprisingly” good mover on the ground. I put quotes on “surprisingly” because I am not surprised, but people who are not familiar with OTTBs can be surprised to see that a TB can move pretty well. Typically in the engine room they have a high concentration (aka linebred) of the following stallions: Blue Larkspur, Rock Talk, Hyperion/Bay Ronald, Owen Tudor/Tudor Minstrel, Turn-To (HTR). Hyperion is definitely the forefront of “dressage-type” movement, the more the better. Same with Bay Ronald and Teddy.

Just some recent sires I have kept an eye on because I’ve seen more than one kid with dressage movement (dunno if they can get to you in AUS): Giant’s Causeway and his sons Stonesider/Frost Giant, Johannesburg, Black Minnaloushe, Utopia, Say Florida Sandy.

Seen a couple of really nice, jaw dropping movers by Frost Giant - one is owned by a COTHer, maybe she will chime in. BM and Utopia put spring but not much suspension, but very improvable trots, droolworthy canters, and SFS puts a very good moving horse all around on the ground.

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Of course you have Hyperion lines in Australia. Look for Star Kingdom, Tudor Minstrel, Aristophanes, Aureole–there are dozens. What you would be wanting to do is pack the pedigree with as much Bay Ronald as you possibly can.

Conformationally, you want an uphill horse. Those are hard to find these days in the time of Northern Dancer/Danehill saturation. Doesn’t matter if the horse is light or heavier if it is truly uphill.

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Thank you for this great information. This time I am going to buy the right horse and not the first needy horse that comes my way. Current horse is my last basket case ever!! Never doing that again!

Thanks for this. Bloodlines is not something that I have previously thought of. Have previously only owned one Thoroughbred and he ended up in my ownership due to needing a person stupid enough to buy him but with enough horse skills to manage his issues. With so many Thoroughbreds in Australia, there’s no need to buy one with major issues unless you want to give it a good home.

Should have written in my original post that for me dressage is a journey and not a destination. I am much more interested in the training aspects of it all rather than the competing side of it.

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I forgot about that - you had mentioned the 6 instances of Hyperion in my guy’s pedigree being a very good thing.

He’s the best moving TB I have ever known, and if cloning were inexpensive I’d consider it. My trainer and I regularly discuss how we wish we had him at 3 without him having raced; he has the kind of mind I LOVE, but not the kind which could handle racing well, and therefore he has “emotional damage” which affects everything in our work. At the same time, with a correct dressage upbringing he would be awesome. I would breed him if he were a mare, without question - and hope the baby was exactly like him.

My mare ( aheadofthebest) by best of the Bests out of Bold Consort is currently showing 4th level and schooling PSG. She is scoring in the 60’s even with my handicap of apparently not being able to count well enough to tell what every 4 strides mean. She is not the biggest mover, and is built a little downhill, but doesnt move like that. She has a fabulous , quick hind leg and her lateral work just requires that you think it and it happens. The best thing is that she always tries. Doesn’t ever say no . I’ve been told that she should be able to do the GP movements - starting half steps and passage…

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I forgot to add, one thing AUS has in spades that I wish the US had is My Gallant. His descendents are consistently very uphill, good movers. Better through Star Gallant.

There’s a fair bit of In Reality down under too, very good for good movement.

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Do you mind me asking, when did you get her, how far along was she when you got her, and how long has it taken you to get where you are today, 4th/PSG?

Star Gallant stood at the farm I worked at in college here in NY.
Lovely horse.

I got her as a coming 4 year old right off the track ( for $600, I might add!) in March of 2012. I had my hip replaced that summer, so just played around with her - took her to some schooling shows in the fall and winter at training level. I tried to event her, but although she was brave and loved to jump, she has absolutely no talent for it. She’s a 2’6 horse. so…She was my “backup” horse, so wasn’t really concentrating on her until the “real” dressage horse got hurt. Decided to take her to her first recognized show in 2015 at second level - she qualified for the BLM finals at both 1st and 2cd level at that show and ended up 4th in the BLM finals at 2cd level, highest AA at only her second recognized show.
Last year we showed 3rd and started 4th, this year we are showing 4th level and she is 9 this year. I had showed up to 3rd level before, but have never ridden to this level or trained to this level either.
She was also the highest scoring mare in the US for RPSI ( beating out all the WB’s), and in the top 10 for AHS, as well as passing her MPT. I did an ET with her this year, but would be more than happy to get an exact replica of her. I found a half sister for sale and tried to buy her, sight unseen, as I love his mare . She is special…

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My OTTB is fifteen this year and we have gotten all breeds first level through I-1. We are learning piaffe and passage together but got a 60% at our first attempt at intermediare B. Red and I have beaten several very fancy, imported and professionally trained warmbloods but it takes an error free test and not leaving anything in the warm up. I wouldn’t trade him for Valegro :slight_smile: I got my horse through a CANTER listing right from the shed rows at age three.

thoroughbreds aren’t for everyone but when you win their heart there isn’t anything they won’t try. And Red’s favorite “pre game ride” is a gallop around the hay fields.

Becky

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Back in the day I remember most the stallions advertised in magazines for dressage or eventing were TBs or had TB blood.

Here’s some links to articles discussing the large amounts of Thoroughbred in modern sport horses.

http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2014/12/will-warmbloods-take-over-eventing/

http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2013/10/breeding-eventers-blood-will-out/

http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2014/12/friedrich-butt-breeding-eventers/

Good moving TBs are out there, even one with a good brain and good movement. I helped a friend find one last year, 7 yr old and had not done too much after track. Don’t know his lines nor his track “record” since he did not come with papers. Such a lovely horse with just the best mind. Moves nicely through his back.

I had a OTTB g that was a spectacular mover (was offered $10,000 for him by pro dressage rider) but pretty difficult mentally. I got him showing 3rd then his soundness went. He did come sound again after stretch of TO but never really regained our momentum training wise and I rehomed him to someone who loved him for many years.

Hard IMO to find: mind, soundness and movement all in one OTTB but it can be done.