Those of you who had horses low on vitamin E…

[blue_heron]

What were the symptoms and how long before you saw a difference? Or no symptoms and no difference shown?

My young mare from my other topic came back with low vitamin E— the lab work said moderately deficient. I started her on the new vitamin E supplement from Smartpak (supposed to be natural and is liquid) and she’s been on 4000 iu for about a week. She has been kind of dull and grumpy and seems to have some weakness or discomfort up high in the left hind. She also has some soreness over her topline. Since being on the vitamin E I think she has been more lively and less grumpy. More forward and lifting her hind feet higher on the longe. The top line soreness and left hind weakness is definitely still there. She seems glad to be doing her ridden job again but still a little uncomfortable.

I’m not expecting the vitamin E to be a miracle cure but wondering how long I should give it before I start exploring other modalities. I’ve already done ulcer treatment, and she recently had saddle, teeth, and shoes done with usual improvements seen after each but did not fix the problem entirely. Vet said she would sell me a round of Adequan if I wanted to try it but I’d like to try things one at a time. Surprisingly I couldn’t find a lot about vitamin E deficiency on CotH or Facebook except the extreme cases.

[RedHorses]

My symptom that prompted testing was a migrating case of fungus on my horse’s cannon that I had chased around for months. He always had minor scrapes below knees and hocks go fungusy before healing properly, had a lot of dandruff, and was always itchy (he didn’t rub himself raw, but he did roll vigorously and often, and loved to be curried with hard, scratchy curry combs).

He tested extreme low end of the normal range. After six months on 2000iu/day (Elevate powder) he tested a decimal point lower, but the cannon fungus was gone and minor scrapes were scabbing and healing normally. After another six months on 3000iu/day he tested smack in the middle of normal range.

In following years his ability to self regulate his body temperature improved, his haircoat got shorter in the summer and longer in the winter, he still enjoyed a good roll and scratchy curry without being so itchy in general, he was more receptive to being touched (friendly pat), less on edge, and obscure things like that. No doubt some of that was due to the beneficial effects of vitamin E on nerve/neuro issues as this was my horse diagnosed as neurological probably a Wobbler eight years later.

I don’t remember how long it took the original cannon fungus to completely heal, but it had been gone several months by the time we did the recheck test.

[Laurierace]

Not exactly an answer to your question since my mare actually tested in the normal range for vitamin e but we found she had VEM when we did a tailhead biopsy. Her symptoms were stiffness, resistance to contact, not wanting to weight her hind end and eventually swapping leads every stride but only behind.

[JB]

@blue_heron

She has been kind of dull and grumpy and seems to have some weakness or discomfort up high in the left hind. She also has some soreness over her topline.

Very common symptoms, as E is important for muscle function, as well as other functions.

@blue_heron

The top line soreness and left hind weakness is definitely still there.

this can take longer to work out if she’s been deficient for a while. Check hoof balance too

@RedHorses

He tested extreme low end of the normal range. After six months on 2000iu/day (Elevate powder) he tested a decimal point lower, but the cannon fungus was gone and minor scrapes were scabbing and healing normally. After another six months on 3000iu/day he tested smack in the middle of normal range.

FWIW, if you run into this again, I would have 2-3x’d your dose for bottom normal, OR used a water-soluble version (like Emcelle, the cheapest) at 3-5000IU, as that will raise levels much faster than fairly minimal dose of a regular E

[RedHorses]

@JB evidently you missed this part at the tail end of my post!

@RedHorses

I don’t remember how long it took the original cannon fungus to completely heal, but it had been gone several months by the time we did the recheck test.

In plain language: the dosage used did exactly what we wanted it to do, which was to resolve the skin issues.

[JB]

@RedHorses

evidently you missed this part at the tail end of my post!

In plain language: the dosage used did exactly what we wanted it to do, which was to resolve the skin issues.

I didn’t miss that My point was, after 6 months of 2000IU of regular E , the level dropped, because the body was using it up as fast as it was coming in. And then it took another 6 months to get things to normal.

The point was, you could have affected a faster return to normal than waiting a whole year.

[RedHorses]

Yes, we do know more about vitamin E in horses now. At the time 1000iu/day was considered more than enough for the average horse, so adding double that to what was already in the diet matches your current 3-5000iu/day boost recommendation.

[Ottbaxel]

@Laurierace Can I hijack this and ask what levels of Vitamin E you had to give your mare to fix this? I suspected my gelding of needing vitamin E and had him on a decent amount of elevate but then he tested normal so I took him off…but these symptoms sound so much like him it has me curious.

[Laurierace]

She is on 10,000 iu of emcelle which is water soluble. She needs either water soluble or nano for life. I just got her follow up bloodwork and her number is in the middle of the range so we will keep her on that amount indefinitely

[Ottbaxel]

@Laurierace

She is on 10,000 iu of emcelle which is water soluble. She needs either water soluble or nano for life.

Interesting, thanks! Maybe I’ll try this with my gelding-although I need to check what could happen if he doesn’t have this and gets way too much Vitamin E first lol. Don’t want to poison him! But I don’t want to spend the money on even more diagnostics for him either.

[Laurierace]

The vet at New Bolton told me it wouldn’t hurt them to have too much but it is a waste so we used bloodwork to figure out a good dose for her. That said, most horses wouldn’t need anywhere near this much.

One thing that was interesting to me was the recommendation to give a second dose when doing something stressful/strenuous like a show

[fivestrideline]

Here’s an interesting side note:

My neuro gelding used to “just” have stifle issues. This was when I got him at 3 years old. One of my vets suggested putting him on vitamin E - no explanation as to why exactly - but we did and saw a huge improvement! He has stayed on at least 2000iu a day since then, but I’m debating bumping him up to 8000-10,000 just to see what happens. It’s interesting to me that even at 3, we saw an improvement in hind end power and soundness by supplementing E.

I don’t really know if he’s been neuro this whole time, has VEM or something similar, or is just a bundle of weird. But it has me thinking…

[JB]

@Ottbaxel

I need to check what could happen if he doesn’t have this and gets way too much Vitamin E first lol.

I don’t know the timeframe, but you CAN start to negatively impact other things if you use too much E. Vit A uses the same uptake pathway as E, so they’ll start competing, and I think it’s Vit A that gets the short straw.

You can start impacting Vitamin K, and even start causing some osteoporosis

OD’ing any fat-soluble nutrient is going to start causing issues at some point. It’s then a matter of how much is the body taking up, and for how long

@Laurierace

The vet at New Bolton told me it wouldn’t hurt them to have too much but it is a waste

that’s unfortunate that he said that, because it’s not correct

@fivestrideline

My neuro gelding used to “just” have stifle issues. This was when I got him at 3 years old. One of my vets suggested putting him on vitamin E - no explanation as to why exactly - but we did and saw a huge improvement!

did you ever test selenium too? E and Se work on many of the same functions, and being low on one can still be ok if there’s enough of the other to take on the extra burden.

[fivestrideline]

@JB

did you ever test selenium too? E and Se work on many of the same functions, and being low on one can still be ok if there’s enough of the other to take on the extra burden.

I’ve never tested for either. I’m tempted to when we do fall shots…

ETA: I added blood tests to the schedule thanks to this thread. We shall see.

[Cowgirl]

My mare tied up badly. She also was having skin issues on her neck. It looked like she was rubbing the hair off but she was not. When she tied up, she was hospitalized to flush her kidneys. We did a muscle biopsy to rule out muscle myopathies. Her blood results revealed a serious vitamin e deficiency. We gave her 10,000 iu for many months and tested her blood monthly. It took about six months to get her in normal range and the rest of a year to gradually reduce the vitamin e to what she was getting for maintenance (3,000 iu in addition to about 1,000 iu in her feed). Her skin condition disappeared.

[blue_heron]

Good discussion, thanks.

I think the short stride is disappearing on the longe over the past two weeks. It’s most noticeable tracking right— she prefers to over flex to the inside and the outside hind doesn’t come through quite as much. To the left she is much straighter and the hind leg comes through, but bending and really bringing the left hind under is challenging.

Under saddle, it is similar but can really feel the weakness in the left hind. She will put it under when asked but I can tell it is hard work. Hopefully we are onward and upward but still want to hear other’s experiences.