Thought experiment - boarders....would you pay by the service?

[Alterration]

As I was cleaning stalls this morning I was thinking about equine boarding, and how it is pretty much the only service industry that doesn’t really seem to itemize the costs for customers, and as a result no one seems happy - not the workers, the customers nor the barn owners.

So - would you pay for services rendered?

E.g if the barn owner offered you a price list that had:

Dry stall fee (mandatory)
Grass Hay fee per lb (with minimums according to equine weight)
Alfalfa Hay fee per lb
Senior feed per lb (with minimums to nutritional needs)
Performance feed per lb (with minimums according to nutritional needs)
Ration balancer per lb (with minimums to nutritional needs)
Bags of bedding per week (with minimums)
Stall Cleaning per day (with minimums)
Turnout in Grass Paddock per hour
Turnout in Dry lot per hour
Turnout in Group pasture per hour
Fly Spraying/Fly Mask/Fly Sheet application & removal per day
Blanketing application & removal per day
Booting application & removal per day
Supplement administration per day
Medication administration per day
Wrapping per day
etc and so on

And then each “thing” was new to you - e.g. buckets, feed pans etc. that you paid for directly and could take when you left. You’d pay for those up front, as well as a disinfectant and stall setup fee.

Obviously substitute different hay types/turnout types depending on your region and offerings.

Barn owners - don’t freak out about tracking all of this either on the request end or the recordkeeping end - I’m just trying to determine whether there would be a palate for having it all itemized so that you’re paying for exactly what you get.

This is the model that the dog boarding kennels, day cares, and other types of business similar to horse boarding near me do it.

[Simkie]

What a nightmare this would be.

Six horses pay for group turnout, but Billy pays for 90 minutes and Sally pays for 6 hours and Jane pays for 2 hours…etc…and rather than turning out and bringing in once a day, there’s someone running back and forth all day. The herd is constantly changing, horses are upset because their friend left or they’re in the barn alone.

Dobbin really needs more hay and grain but his owner will only pay for the bare minimum.

Mary says that she’ll come clean the stall Fri-Sat-Sun so only pays Mon-Thurs, but never actually shows up on the weekend to clean.

…

There are SO MANY ways something like this could go wrong. And yeah, you can say you’d boot out the people who don’t hold up their end of the deal, but how many people are you going to bring in and kick out before you either a) get a group that works or b) decide there’s a reason a la carte for boarding isn’t done.

Dog boarding kennels are a whole different beast than a horse boarding business. Dog boarding businesses have full custody and control and owners aren’t involved–they drop off the dog and turn over all care to the business. Same with doggy daycare. That model isn’t at all what we do with horse boarding.

[Alterration]

@Simkie

Six horses pay for group turnout, but Billy pays for 90 minutes and Sally pays for 6 hours and Jane pays for 2 hours…etc…and rather than turning out and bringing in once a day, there’s someone running back and forth all day. The herd is constantly changing, horses are upset because their friend left or they’re in the barn alone.

Dobbin really needs more hay and grain but his owner will only pay for the bare minimum.

Mary says that she’ll come clean the stall Fri-Sat-Sun so only pays Mon-Thurs, but never actually shows up on the weekend to clean.

No self-care. Stall cleaning would have the minimum of 1x/day as well.

I’m not asking about the management side, I’m asking about the boarder side. There’s a reason I’m asking the question - I AM a BO.

[Simkie]

@Alterration

No self-care.

What?

@Alterration

E.g if the barn owner offered you a price list that had:

Stall Cleaning per day

So, I can say I only want the stall cleaned 3 days out of 7?

[Alterration]

No. Minimums apply for everything that would have a minimum - hay, grain, stall cleaning, turnout etc…

I wasn’t clear from my post.

So - you’d have a minimum of 1x/day cleaned if turned out or 2x/day if in all day (or whatever is appropriate for your facility) but you’d pay for extra cleaning.

The idea is - would people pay for EXTRAS. And would they want to see their board bill itemized.

Everyone whines about how their barn owner doesn’t do it right, or enough, or it’s too expensive. I’m wondering if they’d be willing to actually pay for what it costs.

[widge]

As a boarder I wouldn’t love this. I think “board” should include some clearly-defined basics (which can vary from barn to barn) and then there can be add-ons. I’d worry about paying for a service that isn’t provided ie, Dobbin and Fluffy go out together, but Dobbin needs 2 hours of the out and Fluffy needs 90 minutes, so Dobbin is always shorted in order to make staff life easier. Maybe offering less granular options ie 4 hours, 8 hours, etc would be more realistic. What happens when I pay for daily turnout and the weather sucks or I’m at a horse show? It just seems like a lot to keep track of.

ETA: I saw some additional details from OP came in as I was writing this. They make more sense to me.

[Alterration]

@widge

As a boarder I wouldn’t love this. I think “board” should include some clearly-defined basics (which can vary from barn to barn) and then there can be add-ons. I’d worry about paying for a service that isn’t provided ie, Dobbin and Fluffy go out together, but Dobbin needs 2 hours of the out and Fluffy needs 90 minutes, so Dobbin is always shorted in order to make staff life easier. Maybe offering less granular options ie 4 hours, 8 hours, etc would be more realistic. What happens when I pay for daily turnout and the weather sucks or I’m at a horse show? It just seems like a lot to keep track of.

Again - don’t worry about tracking.

The thing is - barn owners worry about this stuff all the time. And when it comes time to expenses, our expenses vary wildly when it’s rainy vs. sunny, etc. etc.

So - why shouldn’t that get passed on to you?

[Alterration]

And - just while I’m musing…

What if it was - you wanted turnout daily for 4 hours, but it rained. So that day you’d have 2 stall cleanings (or an extra one…because that’s what I usually do when it rains so that horses aren’t standing in crap).

You wouldn’t have your daily turnout fee, but you would have an extra stall cleaning fee.

[Simkie]

@Alterration

No. Minimums apply for everything that would have a minimum - hay, grain, stall cleaning, turnout etc…

I wasn’t clear from my post.

So - you’d have a minimum of 1x/day cleaned if turned out or 2x/day if in all day (or whatever is appropriate for your facility) but you’d pay for extra cleaning.

The idea is - would people pay for EXTRAS. And would they want to see their board bill itemized.

Everyone whines about how their barn owner doesn’t do it right, or enough, or it’s too expensive. I’m wondering if they’d be willing to actually pay for what it costs.

I’ve been at barns where base board included -x- and you (had to) pay additional if your horse needed more.

It applied to hay. So many flakes (it may have been pounds, but I think it was flakes) were fed, and if your horse needed more, there was an additional charge. It was fine. I preferred barns where they just fed enough.

A la carte for one off or seasonal services–bandaging, holding for the vet or farrier, blanketing, etc–fine. A la carte for every day care basics? Build that in to your base rate. If you want to itemize it out, whatever, but that’s not something I would really care about as a boarder. Perhaps the people who whine about how expensive it is would like it, but it may just provide a toe hold for them to argue about how you’re valuing stuff instead.

[NoSuchPerson]

As a boarder, my initial response to a suggestion like this would be to roll my eyes and say, with exasperation, “OMG, just charge me whatever you need to charge me to do all the things.”

That said:

1. I just moved to a different area and when I was looking for a place to board my horse, I found it was becoming increasingly common to offer what people are calling “partial board,” where you supply all your own hay, feed, and bedding and they do all the work. This is a step in the direction of what you’re talking about.

2. Lots of places already charge for extra services, e.g. blanketing, booting, so another step in the direction of what you’re talking about.

3. At the last place I boarded, if the previous boarder left their stall fan behind, you were welcome to use it but if it died, you had to buy a replacement. I had to buy my own feed tub because my current horse likes to fling his feed out of the tub and needed a “special” tub (I never really understood what a high maintenance horse was until I got this guy) and I bought a nice easy-fill slow-feed hay bag at the suggestion/request of the BO. So, again, a step in the direction of what you’re talking about.

So, I think people would get used to your proposed a la carte approach, but I suspect the initial reaction to the suggestion would be somewhat negative because it’s different.

[Alterration]

@Simkie

A la carte for one off or seasonal services–bandaging, holding for the vet or farrier, blanketing, etc–fine. A la carte for every day care basics? Build that in to your base rate. If you want to itemize it out, whatever, but that’s not something I would really care about as a boarder. Perhaps the people who whine about how expensive it is would like it, but it may just provide a toe hold for them to argue about how you’re valuing stuff instead.

I think though that NOT doing it seems to artificially hold prices down and keep board rates comparable to other rates in the area instead of pricing per thing (if that makes any sense). So barn owners who offer superior services or feeds get held back a bit by the cheap barns or the barns that are making up their costs in services like lessons/training.

So I’m just trying to be creative. We have to do something different because clearly the current model isn’t working. Barns are closing all over the place.

[Djones]

A solid base set of services that is included in my “full board” price would be requisite.

I would consider a la carte add ons like bathing, hand walking (post injury), mane pulling, tail conditioning, body clipping, tack cleaning and conditioning, etc.

I don’t know that I’d also be wanting "throw in 2 flakes of alfafa today for 10 bucks. I mean maybe, but what a hassle for BOs to have such variability in what to have on hand.

[Alterration]

@NoSuchPerson

As a boarder, my initial response to a suggestion like this would be to roll my eyes and say, with exasperation, “OMG, just charge me whatever you need to charge me to do all the things.”

That said:

1. I just moved to a different area and when I was looking for a place to board my horse, I found it was becoming increasingly common to offer what people are calling “partial board,” where you supply all your own hay, feed, and bedding and they do all the work. This is a step in the direction of what you’re talking about.
2. Lots of places already charge for extra services, e.g. blanketing, booting, so another step in the direction of what you’re talking about.
3. At the last place I boarded, if the previous boarder left their stall fan behind, you were welcome to use it but if it died, you had to buy a replacement. I had to buy my own feed tub because my current horse likes to fling his feed out of the tub and needed a “special” tub (I never really understood what a high maintenance horse was until I got this guy) and I bought a nice easy-fill slow-feed hay bag at the suggestion/request of the BO. So, again, a step in the direction of what you’re talking about.

So, I think people would get used to your proposed a la carte approach, but I suspect the initial reaction to the suggestion would be somewhat negative because it’s different.

LOL the first reaction isn’t unusual.

When I offered board, I did it full care because I didn’t want situations like an old horse needing a blanket in freezing weather and not getting one because the owner was too cheap. But - I realized that in part I did that because the horse owners I inherited were not…great owners as board was really inexpensive at my facility when I purchased it.

Anyway, I ended up closing temporarily for maintenance with just my own horses here, have been considering selling the farm - even went so far as to talk to a listing agent - but then started to think “what if I could do this a totally different way”.

[widge]

Well, if part of the premise is that owners don’t think the non-itemized situation is fair, then I’m not going to suddenly assume I got all the itemized services. So, I would absolutely be tracking what I know happened versus what my bill said.

[Alterration]

@Djones

I don’t know that I’d also be wanting "throw in 2 flakes of alfafa today for 10 bucks. I mean maybe, but what a hassle for BOs to have such variability in what to have on hand.

I was thinking it would be more $100/mo for alfalfa hay but pro-rated per day if the horse starts the hay mid-month or end of month. It would just be exposed on a per day basis in the invoice, not requested on a daily basis.

[Alterration]

@widge

Well, if part of the premise is that owners don’t think the non-itemized situation is fair, then I’m not going to suddenly assume I got all the itemized services. So, I would absolutely be tracking what I know happened versus what my bill said.

Read any thread on COTH - owners think barn owners are raking it in, and barn owners are closing because it isn’t worth the hassle.

Seems like owners already are doing the latter

[Simkie]

@Alterration

I think though that NOT doing it seems to artificially hold prices down and keep board rates comparable to other rates in the area instead of pricing per thing (if that makes any sense). So barn owners who offer superior services or feeds get held back a bit by the cheap barns or the barns that are making up their costs in services like lessons/training.

I see what you’re trying to do, but I very honestly don’t see this helping matters. Offer a one pager to prospective boarders detailing your services and how they differ from other barns to cover this. Include it once a year–maybe like a Christmas letter, with info on updates you’ve made to the property?–to current boarders. You could even include info about how costs for products have changed, or how property taxes have risen.

Are you finding the higher cost barns that offer better services are not able to attract clients because of their price? There will always be people who are willing to sacrifice amenities or services for a lower cost. Those just aren’t your customers, and it’s okay that they go elsewhere. A deeply detailed itemized bill every month won’t make them your clients … but it may invite line by line arguments every month, where your whiny clients challenge you on whether or not Dobbin was really out 6 hours on Tuesday, or if he came in early.

[Alterration]

@Simkie

I see what you’re trying to do, but I very honestly don’t see this helping matters. Offer a one pager to prospective boarders detailing your services and how they differ from other barns to cover this. Include it once a year–maybe like a Christmas letter, with info on updates you’ve made to the property?–to current boarders.

Are you finding the higher cost barns that offer better services are not able to attract clients because of their price? There will always be people who are willing to sacrifice amenities or services for a lower cost. Those just aren’t your customers, and it’s okay that they go elsewhere. A deeply detailed itemized bill every month won’t make them your clients … but it may invite line by line arguments every month, where you have whiny clients challenge you on whether or not Dobbin was really out 6 hours on Tuesday, or if he came in early.

Barns close because boarding is not worth the hassle. It’s backbreaking, thankless, often loss-leading work artificially held low because of that loss-lead. We’ve lost 6 barns in our area in the past year, I’m sure that it’s not because they weren’t putting out Christmas letters.

I had no trouble attracting nor keeping clients.

I’m just trying to think of ways to save the industry.

[NoSuchPerson]

@Alterration

I think though that NOT doing it seems to artificially hold prices down and keep board rates comparable to other rates in the area

I looked at 6 different boarding stables in preparation for this move. What I found was that although they might do the calculations differently, the final average monthly cost was about the same at most places. For example, at one place you had to buy your own hay and bedding and at another there was a mandatory minimum lesson/training package. But the final monthly cost at both was about the same.

[Alterration]

@NoSuchPerson

I looked at 6 different boarding stables in preparation for this move. What I found was that although they might do the calculations differently, the final average monthly cost was about the same at most places. For example, at one place you had to buy your own hay and bedding and at another there was a mandatory minimum lesson/training package. But the final monthly cost at both was about the same.

There’s a reason for that and it’s not because their costs are the same.

It’s generally because they look to each other. I speak to other barn owners in my area and we ALL keep tabs on what each other is charging. I suppose that would be considered price fixing IF they actually were making a profit on board LOL

If I charged based on a reasonable amount for the services I provided, it would have been $200+ more per month per horse (to charge). But I wasn’t sure that the market would support it.