Oh wow, that is actually better - I’m not sure why I assumed hay would be more expensive in CA rather than less. I know it’s more expensive in FL.
I miss Hygain (total non-sequitor) great feed.
Oh good lord, ok.
I don’t think daily line item billing will change that. I never made an assertion that it was the answer to all of the problems that boarding has.
I was musing as I worked on my own horses stalls this morning that part of the huge problem was that boarders don’t have any friggen clue what it takes to manage their own horses. So I asked the question about what boarders would think, because COTH is a GREAT place to get feedback, or was… I was curious because I clearly have a different perspective than many, having been both a boarder and a BO, and I wanted perspectives other than my own.
So barn owners have two options: whine about it (which everyone hates), or try to educate people.
The second problem is that costs have risen drastically, and board hasn’t kept up with it.
The THIRD problem is that horse owners buy horses without asking really important questions, like how is it in the stall, how easy/hard keeper is it etc. etc. and they expect the 23 year old to look like the 10 year old at the same cost.
So - as I was musing - I was thinking about all of the other services that I pay for that absolutely itemize costs. Vet bills, my internet bill, electrical bills, and most things have them broken down with costs as well as providing alternative ways of doing things if you couldn’t afford it.
It was not a proposal. It was a concept that I was musing about.
Why is just raising costs not feasible?
I raised costs. I went from $300-$675 in the span of 2 years. That was already pretty hard for people to take and several people euthanized their horses in lieu of continuing to care for them which was pretty hard to watch (but necessary - definitely no shade on them). Other barn owners raised costs, yes.
But to raise costs from $675 to $1500 without providing any extra perceived value to customers?
What business/market can survive THAT other than necessities?
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I think it does, myself. No preventative can remove something 100%, but I think that the flat board rate greatly reduces how often people question the price. I think showing such detailed itemizations would make more people question prices than currently are. Most people operate in the way of “what I don’t know won’t hurt me.”
Preach
I guess by current system I meant having a flat board rate as the norm/standard. Not itemized.
Sounds pretty one-sided. I think just as much (if not more) of an issue is boarders being completely clueless to what things actually cost, AND what they think a barn owner’s time is worth. They fail to realize that a boarding barn is (supposed to be) a business, and the goal of a business is to operate on a profit. A profit means the business has additional income AFTER all bills are paid, including employee salaries. It does not mean that the barn owner doing all the work got enough money that month to pay their mortgage. Boarders tend to think that if the barn owner is charging enough to pay themselves more than $5/hour for their labor, they’re charging too much. “It’s just farm work, it’s not that hard.” “You’re already feeding those other four horses, feeding two more isn’t that much more time.”
I would argue that many barn owners not “sitting down and coming up with a viable business plan” is a symptom of the attitude of the paying clients, not the cause. Those of us that did sit down and come up with a viable business realized it’s not actually viable, because people won’t pay enough for it to be viable. So, we don’t open boarding barns to be our sole source of income. My barn in Florida I specifically kept to no more than eight horses, and I preferred six, including my own two, so that my time was not overwhelmed with farm chores and I didn’t get caught up paying out of pocket to care for other people’s horses. I kept my full-time office job and worked from home, and the boarders I took were basically just to have some extra spending money. With my new farm in Georgia, I’m just not offering boarding.
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This happens all the time in every industry, from necessities to luxuries.
I remember when a quarter pounder meal with a large fries and a large coke was a flat five bucks.
People who can’t afford the $10+ bucks or whatever it’s up to now stop eating at McDonald’s.
McDonald’s doesn’t itemize the cost of the meal to try to “make” people understand it’s worth the higher price, and expect them to purchase because of that understanding.
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Definitely horse keeping has not keep up with corporate-greed-causing-fake-inflation. This is basically true of all agriculture, and horse keeping is still very much an agricultural endeavor. So barn owners are now trying to find less labor-intensive methods of horse-keeping, as that’s really the only part of the equation somewhat within their control. And when they do, boarders then expect a board DISCOUNT, or they say the BO is just being lazy. Pah! No wonder they’re all closing up shop.
I already see in many areas a shift towards “pasture” board vs stalling. The problem that often arises there is, boarders think “pasture board” has to be lush 20-acre pastures of grass, or certainly that BO is just terrible and being lazy. But I personally see nothing wrong with paddock board. I want my horses out 24/7 anyway, so all the better if it saves on labor, and IDC if it’s on grass or a dry lot with sufficient hay.
Or you raise your prices, lose the boarders that can’t afford it, and hope there’s enough of a market in your area that you get new boarders in that can afford it, and are willing to pay for it.
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I wonder if that’s a personal preference or a financial status sort of thing. I like seeing things itemized because then I can say “oh that makes sense” and I don’t like black boxes. You may be right though - it would make them confront what they are paying for their horses and nobody wants to see that sh*t 
I do itemize the business expenses because I have to, but you’d better bet I do not itemize my personal equine tack expenses LOL
Yes, the barns that were over the $675 in my example all included mandatory training packages. When I was looking as a boarder, that upset me because I didn’t want that for my horse - I was plenty qualified to train him, but my two choices were subpar care or included training…or driving 3+ hours.
I don’t need my barn to be my sole source of income. It could never replace my main businesses, but doing it at a loss is just dumb.
And to renting dry stalls, instead of offering full care. A ton of that around here.
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No, but as we’ve mentioned, horse boarding isn’t quite like McDonald’s either. All of the other large investments (other than luxury items like diamond purchasing) do tend to be more granular although obviously in some industries YMMV.
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Exactly. So when “the market won’t bear” the higher board prices, people close their doors.
I remember when a luxury saddle was two grand. It wasn’t that long ago. They’re not that any more. Those companies are not itemizing their costs to convince people to purchase.
I just looked through my email because I thought the price on Quillin halters was looking kind of steep. They were about half current about ten years ago. Also not itemizing their costs.
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Yeah, but that comes with it’s own unique challenges. I know when I looked at models, self-care was one I decided against because I’d seen it go wrong SO many times. People fighting over whose supplies were used, stalls not cleaned etc. Yikes!
But it would actually stand to make a profit vs full care. Because for some reason, people will pay for the dry stall and pay individually for the bedding/feed and not have a problem with it.
What about having the dry stall and having the bedding/feed for sale on premise? That way the people never run out, and the labor costs aren’t a problem?
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No, but people think of a saddle differently than boarding. I don’t know why - it isn’t right - but they do.
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Right.
And then people say “why do all the boarding options suck” and I just want to beat my head against the wall. LOL
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Yes definitely! “Here’s a stall, take care of your horse yourself.” I’m not mad at it. After all, a big hurdle for a lot of people owning horses is just having somewhere to keep it. Can’t keep your horse in your apartment like you can a dog. I wonder if that was the initial intent of whoever started “horse boarding,” and offering all the other services just kind of naturally followed since the BO was “already there doing it for their animals anyway.” And now we’re going back full circle.
I agree, that used to really bother me when looking for board. It still irks me when I come across the perfect barn, but then see I have to pay for training I don’t want, but having been a BO, I understand it a little more now.
A barn back in my hometown started requiring training for all boarders after about a decade of just being a boarding barn. But they were clever with it, they required that you pay for two sessions per month, either a lesson or training ride. Not full training, so not a huge commitment. So, people complained a bit then got over it. Guess how many people actually utilize those training sessions/lessons. Not many 
the barn essentially raised their board $150/month in a way that created the perception the boarders were getting something else out of it, but in reality most of them don’t utilize that extra service so it’s just more board money for the BO.
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You could try it, but if you’re already considering selling the farm and have been closed temporarily for maintenance, I’m going to guess that you’re not going to want to deal with it.
As a BO, I would not want to deal with that level of ala carte pricing. If a horse needs something that isn’t provided, the owner and I will discuss it. If they buy, I’ll figure most things out.
But, I have a private farm and only keep boarders because it’s a bit of cash flow, it is at a loss, has been for 20 years, I have the tax records to show it. It’s been positive cash flow several times, but depreciation and has always pulled it into loss territory.
There is a miniscule real estate tax benefit (worth about 1000/year), but I also could get almost the same real estate tax benefit with open space. It does make the considerable amount of money I spend to maintain and improve the farm an expense against the paltry board income, either depreciated or expensed.
But, it is 365 days/year of taking care of horses. If I go on vacation for 2 weeks, that would use 100%+ of the board income on paying a farm sitter.
I do it because I like to share my horses and I like company for riding when schedules align. I also require help on the 2x a year barn power-washing, everyone comes and pitches in that weekend. Some strip stalls, some clear out the aisle/tack stall, some come to help put it back together, some bring an extra power washer and help.
Sometimes I assign pulling weeds from edge of the arena or end of the barn aisle, sometimes I ask someone to help pick manure in the fields.
If you have a horse at my farm, I expect a fair amount of hands on, and yes, there are times when boarders don’t get out and their horses are always taken care of, which is why they are expected to pitch in when they are here.
I’ve had boarders for 20 years now (usually 2-3). I am starting to think of if I will close the business and just keep my own horses at some point, but for now, I’m in the middle of some labor saving improvements (automatic waterers and a few other things) and I intend to keep the business running for the foreseeable future.
And most of the boarders I’ve gotten over the years were usually from the BBs. COTH provided me the first era, all my original boarders no longer have horses at all, they’ve moved onto other pursuits (bizarre concept to me!). They all know who I am online. I do my best to be transparent in my expectations and communications and try to not assume someone knows what I want done if I neglected to say it.
IMNSHO, The reality is that the vast majority of horse activities have to be subsidized in some way. Foxhunters? The good graces of landowners, trail riders, need municipal/state/federal trails or generous land owners, boarding barns nearly all operate at a loss on board, even the super expensive ones are probably only making a hundred or so a month on a horse (on average), because the super expensive ones have super expensive facilities they built and are maintaining. So, you’re either subsidizing or being subsidized, but that’s kind of what communities do. I live in rapidly developing Loudoun County, VA…and thanks to the “mine mine all mine don’t trespass on my land” attitude of many of the new residents, I’ve lost just about all ride-out, but I can still load up and haul to parks. We have a small group of neighbors who have put together small, connecting trails on their parcels, and I allow ride through on mine (also hiking for the walkers of the neighborhood).
Having horses is a ridiculously expensive luxury. Even keeping a horse in a self-care, field board situation is a luxury.
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Skilled labor vs what people call unskilled labor are valued very different in the public eye, particularly in the USA. And even though people will lose their minds if their BO isn’t a horse behavior expert, horse nutrition expert, unofficial vet tech, etc., they largely view all things agriculture as unskilled labor.
Dropping feed in a bucket? Unskilled.
Drying that animal skin to the perfectly moisturized soft texture? Skilled.
Picking poop out of a stall? Unskilled.
Cut the tree for a saddle to the perfect shape? Skilled.
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I did wonder about that. A few of them that I know that did that I couldn’t see how people were choosing them because their lessons/training qualifications were dubious at best.
One farm that I know I can’t believe they are charging as much as they are (this is an outlier that would meet the profit qualifications) but I know it was always empty because they had their kids teaching and because the husband was an alcoholic lech. Now the farm is up for sale and I’m wondering if their goal was to make their books look good so that it might sell as an equestrian property.
Yeah, the problem with that is that even unskilled labor now costs a crap-ton. The lowest I’ve seen people willing to pick stalls for was $15/hour with a house included. A whole house.
When I did have a full boarding facility I was the veterinary assistant (e.g. everything pre and post the actual vet), nutritionist, trainer, consultant and often psychotherapist. I took people through divorces and remarriages, helped their children with severe emotional disabilities enjoy being around people and develop self-esteem…I mean, the number of roles that I played that went beyond dumping feed and grain. Yikes.
You asked what industries, other than necessities, could bear raising prices without a bump in perceived value. Loads. I’ve given you three examples. Two are horse related.
You yourself more than doubled board rates. I presume there’s some increase in perceived value there since you assumed the property, but other barns in the area also raised rates, perhaps without increase in perceived value.
I think you’re really selling short a population of horse owners. People DO understand inflation. People deal with inflation every single day in every aspect of their life. Yes, there’s a point where the market won’t bear further increase, and whatever that product or service is shrinks or disappears. Such is a free market. And yes, there are people who make it their job to complain. They can be shown the door.
Scarcity–barns closing–while shitty and worrisome, may aid in supporting a higher price, at least for awhile. Those with the funds CAN pay more, and scarcity drives demand. Whether that persists, or if those people decide it’s not worth it and divert their funds elsewhere would have to play out. But again–market forces at work.
It sounds like what you really are looking for is a better way to educate clients on the actual cost of horse keeping. People see what relates to cost increases in their day to day life all the time–war, trade disagreements, corporate shenanigans, etc etc. It’s all right there, forced at us from every screen. We don’t question gas prices because we see all sorts of explanation and opinion on why they are the way they are all the time.
So perhaps use that. A yearly or quarterly or whatever letter detailing what supplies cost and WHY. Bedding costs have risen due to Canadian fires. Feed costs have risen due to fuel. Here is how things have changed over the last year/five years/whatever.
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Well, I’m pretty far left so grain of salt but, I myself don’t find the $15/hour to be unreasonable. The house part, I guess if the job had enough responsibilities to be a full-time job, I could see how that wouldn’t be an unreasonable ask. Depending on rental costs in your area.
But this is exactly a point. You’re complaining about the cost of paying a laborer. Boarders are complaining all the costs of the barn owner’s labor. Everyone’s complaining about how much someone at some level of work should get paid, trying to dictate how much someone else’s time is worth. So it’s not worth trying to stay afloat.
Yep, that’s typically what all BOs are, TBH.
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This is what I miss. I had a LOT of fun with my boarders as they were my social network as well. I didn’t ask much of them, as I was very full care (maybe not super full care, but very full care) but I really enjoyed the camaraderie and we had a lot of fun days doing different things. I had a great group. While it’s definitely cost effective to just have my horses at home it’s kind of boring.
But that’s not a good reason to lose money. Closing up and boarding somewhere would give me the same net effect without the hassle, work, or the loss.
