I’ve been looking for my next horse for what seems like forever. As an adult amateur with a serious back issue, a safe and smooth mount is a must. Hoping to earn my silver in the next few years, I’ve joined the ever growing group of amateurs who have also been looking, for years, for these elusive unicorns. I’ve tried quite a few horses and have taken a liking to PREs and Lusitanos. Most have seemed safe though responsive to the aids, thoughtful, able to tolerate my adult amateur mistakes, and are a relief for my back to dismount at usually 16 hands or less. I was hoping there might be a few folks on this forum that are knowledgeable in what PRE/Lusitano farms/trainers have good reputations. I am not in the market, nor near knowledgeable enough, to import one of these lovely creatures and for my purposes, am looking at those farms/trainers that have sales of trained/shown horses for sale (3rd level +), not youngsters. I would love to hear thoughts from those that show these breeds in recognized shows. Without trying to lump them all into the same category since all horses are unique … how are they received? Where do they struggle? Where do they excel? Are they appropriate for my search? What to watch out for in these breeds? I would be quite grateful for any thoughts, suggestions, etc. anyone has on the breeds and the experience of bringing them up through the levels. Thanks!
Casa Lusitana in Tyngsboro MA
They are well received.
Judges want to see well trained horses that are fit for the job, whatever the breeed.
Lenghtening is their weakness.
They can easily fake being throught thus not being truly collected.
Disclaimer: am typing this on a phone, so it may be total rubbish.
I am an Iberian convert. I love them. I didn’t expect to as a TB and WB (well, one) person.
They are so intelligent, sensitive, and intuitive. I’ve never felt more connected to a horse than I do with the PRE’s. I find them to be generally comfortable at all gaits, and a light ride. Very sensitive to your aids, body language, and environment. Their intelligence can be a downfall if you let them have bad habits or get away with stuff. They can also anticipate a bit due to being smart and wanting to please. I can’t ride a full test on my 6 year old more than 2 times, otherwise he knows it!
I think they are a good amateur friendly horse for a rider that has good body control and is light with their aids. Mine can be spooky, but sometimes he’s bluffing.
The downfalls can be spooky, sensitive, and hot. More so hot in the Lusitano’s, but honestly I’d own either and get along with both breeds.
They are also laminitis and EMS prone. Very easy keepers. A lot of the times lush pasture, or any, is out of the question for these guys.
They should not be trimmed/shod like a WB or other horse IMO. Their hoof conformation is slightly different/more upright.
They also come in a variety. Some are more sporty and some are more baroque. Some dish due to that being a desirable trait amongst some breeders at one time. Usually if they’re relaxed and going well, they don’t do it so much, IME. They are good at faking it. It can be challenging to get them to work their back. Collection is more of their Forte than extension. Some also have a lot of knee action. I also have one that has an insanely short back so saddle fitting is fun, but short backed is not uncommon for them.
They’ve been around the dressage ring for awhile, they’re fairly well received.
No insight on US breeders as I buy from Spain. Just make sure you find one with a good foundation.
I wonder what area of the country you’re in. I bought my PRE filly from Amy MacHugh of Jackass Mountain Ranch, in Washington state. She has a fantastic breeding program. She mostly deals in young stock, and most of her babies are sold before they are 3. Here is her website, though the horses for sale page is not updated. You really have to go visit her to see what she’s got available. http://www.jackassmtranch.com/horses/index.html
Agree, and would add, other weaknesses include the walk (usually short strided), and sometimes the canter - some find flying changes super difficult. If you are looking for 3rd level and above, look for one with good confirmed changes.
I know a few PRE breeders, and have ridden a few of the horses. They are not all smooth - be aware of that too. Some of them are very bouncy - just because they are not big movers does not mean they are not bouncy. My trainer works at a PRE barn - she has taken several of them to the FEI levels.
In general (there are lots of exceptions either direction), the PRE is the quieter breed, the Lusitano is hotter and more reactive. In general, the Lusitano is more adjustable in its gaits. These are generalities, there are many variations within the breed. Some of them are quite spooky - but not as overreactive in the spook as the “normal” (again, a generality, with many exceptions) Warmblood might be. So they feel a lot safer that way.
Most breeders sell young stock - maybe started under saddle, seldom 3rd level or above. So if you are looking for that level of training, you are probably going to be looking at an individual or sales barn selling a horse. There are a lot more of them on the West Coast, from what I can see.
They are not cheap - you won’t find a lot of “bargains” out there, especially with a 3rd/4th level horse.
Mojito mentioned Jackass Ranch - and they have turned out some really NICE moving, athletic horses. That is one resource, but again, more likely for a young prospect then a 3rd level horse. I know of several breeders, but again, no one has 3rd level+ horses for sale at this time. Those I know who have bought a 3rd level+ horse have bought them from private sales, sales barns (not breeders), or imported them.
There is one breeder I would recommend. The owner is a nice woman and breeds lusitanos. Nice horses and none I saw were from the super hot bullfighting lines. Mostly farm raised, I don’t think she sells dressage finished horses.
http://westcoastlusitanos.com/home.html
For Andalusian I would look here:
https://www.dancingkingsfarm.com
I like that they offer home bred young stock as well as imported trained stock.
This^ Also PeakRock Farm, (Mass and Fla). Two horses from here at our barn - lovely lusitanos, upper level.
Emerald Oaks Farm, (ocala fl) They go periodically to Spain, and are competing a couple lovely Andelusians at GP
I also know that Woodlands Equestrian gets some; tend to be on the younger side, we have one at our barn and he is not going to be a 4th level horse, struggles with changes. Not a reflection on Woodlands I dont believe, just the challenges of buying a young horse.
I will say: These horses dont come cheap as there is not a big supply. I got Lusitano 3 years ago - had the luxury to part lease for a while before purchase. Smitten, over the top crazy about this horse. He had some training gaps and would get quite fired up when a little stressed. We worked through those, now showing I-1, working on the 1’s, and he suits me well, though I said for a while “dont want a white horse, dont want a stallion”:lol:
IMO well received by judges. Important to understand when buying - they dont move like a warmblood, and will not have such ground cover in their gaits. But ride/train them in balance and they are lovely. Slower rhythm allows mine to relax and open up his back, gaits. Push him and he gets choppy pony gaits.
I rode Andalusians in Spain at a breeding/training center - Epona in Carmona.
The schoolmaster mare I had for lessons was very fun to ride & the horse I rode on trails also good.
Nice, solid little horses with comfy gaits.
But…
:uhoh:
I am going to sneak in here & suggest Tennessee Walking Horses.
I know - Horror!!! Blasphemy!!! :eek:
But I am on my 3rd Walker & they can trot, have a ton of natural suspension & “Sit” & some have a Rocking Horse canter that is very collectable,
Although 1 of my 3 was 17H+ - vet called him The Belgian Walking Horse 
- he also totally hard-wired to gait < Did.Not.Trot, even in pasture - his gait was like getting a backrub & my (traditional) dressage trainer always commented on his ability to rock back & Sit.
The other 2 were smaller - just shy of 16H & solid 16H - but ride like bigger horses as they have a lot of bone.
If you can find a TWH with trot you might look into it.
I am currently riding one that was gifted to me when I lost my WB by a friend who used him strictly for trails & horsecamping for the 6yrs she had him. We guesstimate he is 15ish now.
She never trotted or cantered as they preferred Gait for trails.
After 2yrs of lackadisical (2X monthly if we’re lucky) training he is nearly 100% confirmed in trot & canter is coming.
His shape has changed too - where his underthroat used to be the biggest muscle he now rounds into the bridle.
His trot is easy to sit until he turns on the afterburners & even then it lifts me so posting is easy, if sitting becomes a bit harder.
Last Fall he won his Intro 2 test - over a field of 4 WBs - even though he “broke” to gait for most of it.
It was his First Show Ever & I was not going to start an argument.
The “r” Judge commented our geometry was Spot On.
Coves Darden Farm in Aiken S. Carolina. They are wonderful to deal with and want to match you up with what will make you happy. They are breeding and selling calm well-mannered well-started (or well-trained, depending on what you buy) PRE’s, very AA friendly. I love what I got. Mine is very typey looking, but still tall (16.2) with very correct movement. He doesn’t paddle, his walk overtracks, and he’s loose in the back and has a respectable lengthening. He was well-started on the farm then sent to Stacey Hastings who put some great moves and buttons on him. And yet he can still take a joke.
True, he’s not boinging across the ring like a warmblood, but I trjed those and didn’t want to have sit on all that bounce. He’s super comfy, light in the hands, easy going. I couldn’t be happier. Great breeders and trainers.
First - I know this is not an answer to the question you are asking, but in your searching, have you looked at some others? I’m thinking that rather than looking for the right breed, you might want to look for the right horse among multiple breeds.
You might look at Aztecas. They are a really beautiful breed, descended from the Andalusian and Quarter horse, and similar to some you are considering. I know of an absolutely stunning stud, whose name (translated to English) is “Show Off”.
Another option, is a Mustang. These have been referred to as “America’s Baroque Horse” and many Mustangs show good type and gates. A Mustang won the Haggins Cup at Tevis this year and I understand that another was in the top 10. You might contact some of the Mustang TIP people for help in finding your guy.
You want a smooth gate. That’s a good thing if you have a bad back. When I first sat my ASB mare, her trot was so nice and floaty, that I actually exclaimed how nice it was, and at that point, I think the seller was thinking in her mind - “K-Ching!!!” And I still love her big floaty trot. She’s also as smart as the dickins, and this is both a good thing and a bad thing. Just a word of warning.
If your back is really bad, then you might think of TWH’s. I have a friend who is really into them, and have ridden some of his, and it’s so, so different. Try one, you might really like it, and they have been used in dressage. You might enjoy being the “different horse” person.
Like I said, not an answer to your question, but some thoughts.
I’ve also seen some nice Andie/warmblood crosses. They come out looking very Baroque.
^^^This! Though of course it depends where you are.
A friend of mine just got one from them, with a description exactly like what you’re looking for. The more I see her ride him, the more I love how perfect he is for her! Nothing bothers him, he happily hacks around the farm, he can take a joke, and yet he’s sensitive enough that he’s easy for her to ride.
I second a mustang. Of course, I am biased :lol: . Some of them have absolutely lovely gaits, they are hardy (less lameness problems from my experience), easy keepers, and some (like mine) can be very baroque-like! And, a well trained, well started mustang will literally give you everything. My mare tries absolutely everything I have thrown her way, and has a work ethic to die for.
I started my mare from almost completely feral on up, but mustangs that have a lot of training on them can be had at VERY decent prices. There is a FB group called Mustangs Eventing Dressage or something or other. Shows you what a lot of them are accomplishing, and occasionally have VERY nice well started mustangs already competing and placing well for sale!
There are mustangs and there are mustangs. The dun Kiger mustangs are very nice horses with Iberian characteristics. But many mustang populations are just smaller feral grade horses, tough and sure-footed but with no particular athletic talent for dressage, or jumping, or Western Pleasure.
I owned one as a teen, and saw some other horses from the same source, what people now refer to as “wildies” off an Indian reserve. Fantastic all around horse but not built for any known competition on earth (though I bet she could have done endurance).
So mustang is really too broad a term. And don’t think because a horse is doing a huge trot on video while panicked in a holding pen that this is something that will translate easily to a nice extended trot under saddle.
You want smooth, safe, easy and trainable? Uphill, sound with great feet & legs? And usually dirt cheap?
You need an American Saddlebred. 
Here are just 5 examples of Saddlebreds in Dressage (some of these are not recent pics of the horses, most are on Facebook). All of the below horses are or were showing at 4th Level or above:
https://www.breyerhorses.com/files/imagesBreyer/Community/Horsepedia/Breeds/American_Saddlebred/Photos/harry_callahan.jpg
https://78.media.tumblr.com/b6642c1dba680ffe12262110055fb9d5/tumblr_okrpzyHRRp1uyk1iio2_640.jpg
http://www.chronofhorse.com/sites/default/files/1MDB_1804.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6b/b4/0b/6bb40b54e67e103140156fe75892f201--dressage-horses-american-saddlebred.jpg
http://www.winsdown.com/R.FirstProphet-30.jpg
My latest half-lease is an andalusian. He’s such a different ride than anything I’ve ridden before. I can see how the breed can be so desirable for AA’s in general.
My trainer is well connected and helps with a lot of sales in the region here (I’m happy to PM you her info - we’re in Southern California if that helps), so we get some really nice ones in occasionally for sale. We have enormous stallions who have been bred before who are not especially trained, but will pack out on trails safely for older AA’s who just want a fun ride.
I’m still a huge fan of the taller warmbloods, but this guy is totally winning my heart. He has such a great personality, he’s honest and is making me a more honest rider, and we look great together.
All the various PREs we have here are simply wonderful animals.
- and yes - the gaits are so much smoother.
Yes, there are many run of the mill. But look at that Facebook page, LOTS of nice horses excelling in dressage, eventing, even hunter. Sure, mustangs aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, but there are some NICE ones out there, and very reasonably priced.
I agree with looking for a horse with your criteria without limiting the breed. This is especially true if you want advanced training.
I had different needs and ended up with a fairly green Morgan. Morgans can meet your criteria, but there are not a lot of them trained to that level for sale.
I suspect you will do best by investigating any horse that seems to meet your needs and asking specifically about the gaits. Best of luck! (I find horse hunting is one of those things that sounds like a lot more fun than it actually is!)
In my very personal opinion, Spanish/Baroque horses are the next market that people have figured out how to tap to sell overpriced horses to rich women.
There’s a guy in the local area who has the whole deal, the Portuguese outfit, the accent, the tight pants, and he can ride the heck out of anything. Including just-off-the-plane horses who went through an auction two months before in Brazil and have barely any training but are great “prospects” with $30,000 price tags.
I’m not implying that is true of any of the horses previously mentioned in this thread. I just see a looooot of them who completely have the number of their amateur riders who are way too smart and way too sensitive for the rider.
