Thoughts on 2yo WB that cross canters

[NaturalSelection]

I went to look at a young WB prospect this weekend. Good conformation, kind eye, tunes in to humans, decent walk with some over track. Watched him move loose in a small roundpen (15-20m). Has a fantastic trot, lots of suspension, very soft and light mover with a big step. But there was more cross canter than true canter. Not a frantic or scrambling cross canter, in fact, he looked rather balanced doing it, but still seems unusual. I’m kicking myself for not taking video.

The gal had sent me some free jumping videos of the horse from last fall (long yearling) and he cross cantered a lot in the free jump videos too. I asked the gal and she said “he just does that, his mom did too at that age.”

I thought horses usually cross canter due to hind end weakness or unbalanced. Any other explanations?

[rememberthenight]

At 2, that doesn’t surprise me. I find the canter is very sensitive to general fitness, growth spurts and hind leg angles. At 2, mine were gawky as heck. Many of my babies didn’t get a real quality canter until they were 5ish. My super growth gelding went through fits and spurts with his canter until he finished growing at 9.

[TMares]

He is weak behind. Likely nbd.

[beowulf]

That would be a red flag to me, but YMMV.

I expect TBs of that age to canter correctly, and they do… then they go on to race… and I still expect them to not cross canter more than true canter at liberty…

A WB that has never had any serious work, doesn’t have a glaring injury, but cross canters consistently is not my idea of a sound future prospect.

My rising 3 y/o WB has never had that problem, and most young WBs I know don’t share this issue, either. We’ve had several young horses on the farm and not all of them balanced, but none of them cross-cantered more than true cantered. An occasional cross canter when flying around doing zoomies is fine, but naturally doing it and/or doing it more than true canter is not ideal.

Totally normal for them to be unbalanced or a bit gawky, otherwise… but the canter should be true.

Some things that could contribute to cross cantering more than true cantering (especially if the parent also had this issue) is c-spine arthritis and/or impingement, KS, inherited stifle and/or hock abnormalities, and management sure plays a part - lack of turnout can make a weak hind end in general but IME, why buy trouble?

If I had a limited budget and/or did not want to risk a PPE, I would walk away.

[Libby2563]

I agree with @beowulf that it would be a bit of a red flag to me. Depending on how nice the horse is otherwise and how risk-averse I was, I might pass.

It’s hard to say though. One of my WBs always had tendencies to cross-canter on the longe, even when he was competing at Grand Prix dressage and was obviously more than strong enough to canter on a 20 m circle. He never did it under saddle.

[theresak]

I was just looking at young WBs for sale with a limited budget and passed on a few that demonstrated a lot of cross canter, especially if they had the counter lead and swapped the front and not the back.

I worry that once under saddle they would have a difficult time holding a lead, learning to counter canter, and have easy, clean changes if they were already comfortable in the cross canter. One of my requirements was something I could put a clean change on and sell if needed - no need to set myself up for extra challenges with a canter that’s not clear.

[PNWjumper]

I don’t consider that an issue at all and it’s not even a “yellow” flag to me (let alone a red one). Many of my WBs come to me (age 3/4) with a pretty decent cross canter when on the lunge or out loose. There has never been any correlation with unsoundness or difficulty of any sort under saddle (also, the cross canter has never been an issue while learning changes).

In fact, I was just lunging my 7yo at a show to let her move out a bit and I was laughing at her because she was cross cantering on the lunge line (it’s always been something she’s done, but I lunge her so rarely I had forgotten about it). Totally balanced on the cross or true lead and happy to swap back and forth. When I got her she was weedy behind and I attributed it to a balance issue (the cross canter often came with a crooked body on the lunge to “fake” being straight). Now I can cluck at her and she’ll change to the true lead until something grabs her attention or sends her crooked again. But under saddle it’s a totally moot point. She’s always had gorgeous changes and never had a problem picking up a true canter.

Here she is cantering around a 1.30m course the other day with nary a lead issue ;): https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFSpor…5501668501461/

[beowulf]

On the lunge wouldn’t bother me too much, but they should correct the cross cantering shortly as its’ a disunited gait and not comfortable for them - that’s just part of being young and unbalanced and lacking the musculature an older, more developed horse has… but… cross-cantering as the default vs true canter, is still not a good sign to me.

[ladyj79]

Cross centering on a small round pen to me is no different than cross centering on the lungs which is not unusual for a young horse, or a horse who isn’t strong. I’m with @PNWjumper on this one, it’s a meh, barring other signifiers.

[Didi]

I find it a red flag. I once looked at one who was an absolutely perfect mover and free jumper but passed because of the consistent cross cantering. It at best is a sign of unbalance. At worst, a skeletal issue. Just my 2 cents.

[ASB_Stars]

I find that young horses that cross canner are simply going through a growth spurt. Balance takes time. I would absolutely not throw them out just for that. There’s so many things that you can do to help and strength and balance as they grow but that is an absolute baby and I would not throw it out with the bathwater

[Foxtrot_s]

I’d be looking for other issues as well. If the cross cantering was on a circle I’d consider that he is a growthy youngster who has not yet muscled up enough to stay balanced. But I would look further just in case.

[4horses]

My mare cross canters due to lameness issues. She was like that at age 2… Had 3 vets look at her and still don’t have a diagnosis. X rays didn’t show anything.

[NaturalSelection]

Great discussion, I really appreciate the input! I have decided to pass on the horse. He’s probably just fine, but in addition to the cross canter, he’s looks like he’s going to finish bigger than I want.

This guy is a great deal and I really want to know the outcome (does the cross canter matter?)! However, I don’t really need another horse right now so I decided not to take the risk.

Thanks,
Katie.

[Dressagelvr]

Agree this is a red flag.

The horse is a “great deal” for a reason…

[clint]

I have bred a few warmblood foals for a long time, and I don’t like to see one that cross canters a lot. Sure it can happen once in awhile, but I wouldn’t be pleased with one that cross cantered more than not.

[Wanderosa]

@PNWjumper

I don’t consider that an issue at all and it’s not even a “yellow” flag to me (let alone a red one). Many of my WBs come to me (age 3/4) with a pretty decent cross canter when on the lunge or out loose. There has never been any correlation with unsoundness or difficulty of any sort under saddle (also, the cross canter has never been an issue while learning changes).

In fact, I was just lunging my 7yo at a show to let her move out a bit and I was laughing at her because she was cross cantering on the lunge line (it’s always been something she’s done, but I lunge her so rarely I had forgotten about it). Totally balanced on the cross or true lead and happy to swap back and forth. When I got her she was weedy behind and I attributed it to a balance issue (the cross canter often came with a crooked body on the lunge to “fake” being straight). Now I can cluck at her and she’ll change to the true lead until something grabs her attention or sends her crooked again. But under saddle it’s a totally moot point. She’s always had gorgeous changes and never had a problem picking up a true canter.

Here she is cantering around a 1.30m course the other day with nary a lead issue ;): https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFSpor…5501668501461/

Those jumps are large and terrifying and make me hyperventilate just looking at them. But may I say that you both look quite lovely sailing over them?

For the OP - I’m not an expert but it wouldn’t be a huge thing to me in a WB that young. IME, horses often do stuff at Liberty that they don’t do under saddle simply because they can. The extra effort of carrying a rider forces them to be precise. Just like I can pick up a 5 lbs weight off the floor with one foot extended in the air behind me and my back rounded, whereas if I go to deadlift 150 lbs, it’s going to be 20 seconds of me shuffling around to get the bar situated right up by my shin and my pelvis brought under to a neutral position and flipping my hand back & forth to see if I want a reverse grip or not before I lift that sucker.

[Ammy]

A horse that struggles to canter correctly on its own won’t magically improve on the lunge or under saddle.

There are heaps of nice babies who canter correctly.

[PNWjumper]

@Ammy

A horse that struggles to canter correctly on its own won’t magically improve on the lunge or under saddle.

There are heaps of nice babies who canter correctly.

Except cross-cantering isn’t “struggling” to canter. I think having an educated eye is helpful here and is perhaps the difference between people who run at the mere thought of cross cantering and those who don’t care. Cross cantering can be a mess of an issue with a horse who is clearly conformationally a trainwreck, or it can be the sign of a horse that’s well-balanced enough to not care that they’re disunited lead-wise. When the mare I have cross canters it is light, uphill, and balanced…just happens that her hind end shifts slightly to the outside and she’s perfectly happy cantering that way., but will and can easily swap to a solid lead I’ve also seen horses that cross canter in terrible balance and look like a washing machine as they desperately try to throw their bodies this way and that to fix the balance. I have zero issue with the former and probably wouldn’t be interested in buying the latter.

But with the former, yes, many “magically” improve under saddle where they can be held (or hold themselves) in better balance.

[Helicon]

I agree with both sides, if that is possible. Sometimes it’s nothing, other times it’s something.

I watched the stallion licensing in Verden where they were only cream-of-the-croup youngsters. One day the colts were shown longeing. It was amazing how many of them cross cantered at times, despite being high quality, athletic and sound. One of my homebred horses cross cantered when he was young and whenever he is out of shape, but he got stronger and I was still able to train him to fourth level.

On the other hand, I think sometimes it is a clue there is a problem brewing. Some horses don’t seem to be able to work through it. It could the sacroiliac or neurologic or god knows what else.