Update: Purchased! I’m so in love! ❤️ - Thoughts on foal I’m interested in

[Tha_Ridge]

I do not know a ton about that sire, but a few things of note:

The filly is half-Thoroughbred, and it appears that she’s unregistered at the moment. Has the mare been accepted by the Hanoverian book? I am not sure of their process for accepting Thoroughbred mares. Not that it changes the filly’s quality in any way, but it could potentially impact resale value down the line unless you put mega-show miles on her.

I’d find out if the mare is a cribber. Macho Uno, the dam-sire, is notorious for throwing cribbers—like it seems statistically impossible how many of them crib. They are usually very good movers and jumpers, though.

Finally, I’ve seen more well-bred 2023 babies from more “reputable” breeders with better lines for less money.

[fivestrideline]

No comments on the filly herself, but I have also seen purpose-bred, registered WB babies from proven lines for that price and less. Registry really matters for the fillies, and for resale (even if you never think you’ll sell, it’s valuable to have should something unexpected happen).

[GreyDes]

Hanoverian requires TB mares to be inspected with a gait score of 7 or better. My understanding is that it’s one of the most challenging registries to get TBs approved for.

Since the ad doesn’t say the dam has been approved for Hanoverian they may be planning to go with a different registry.

Details on the process are here - https://hanoverian.org/thoroughbred-and-arabian-mare-requirements/

OP - Do you care about registry? I agree with the earlier posters who said it would impact resale value for a young horse without a show record. If that doesn’t matter then what has the dam produced? Are there half siblings, etc. that give you a better shot of this filly turning into the horse you want?

I totally get buying a high quality youngster! I bought my mare as a weanling because the “pay as you go” plan worked much better for me and I was okay taking a calculated risk based on bloodlines and half siblings.

[swmorse]

I haven’t priced horses in a long time, so no opinion about that. I did breed a few Hanoverians and Oldenburgs back in the early 2000’s.

Brought a TB mare to a Hanoverian inspection where she missed by half a point. The judges comments were: nice neck, for a TB, nice shoulder, for a TB. Her colt, since she missed being approved, got a COP: certificate of pedigree. Since he was going to be a gelding, that was OK by me. I sold him and later saw him advertised for sale as ‘registered’. COP is not really ‘registered’.

I say a that because I saw in her ad it says registered. SO she might just have a certificate of pedigree, which wouldn’t be very useful if you wanted to breed her later on, although she might be approved in another registry. She is cute.

[ZuzusPetals]

@Tha_Ridge

Macho Uno, the dam-sire, is notorious for throwing cribbers—like it seems statistically impossible how many of them crib.

This is fascinating. I didn’t know that cribbing can have a genetic component, or that the habit is tracked in offspring. And I love that you casually know this about the dam-sire.

[Tha_Ridge]

Yes! I mean, it’s largely anecdotal, but many OTTB resellers have noted it, and we briefly discussed it on this thread. I would be very fascinated to find out if there’s been any more in-depth research into the subject. (I personally am not bothered by cribbers at all, but I know it’s a dealbreaker for a lot of folks.)

[JB]

The filly is LOVELY. She has the build for a Hunter

They are “lying”, or just “telling the truth in advance” by calling her a Hanoverian since she isn’t registered yet.

You don’t ride papers, BUT, if you have any thoughts of breeding her, or think there’s any chance down the road you’d sell her with “broodmare potential”, you need to seriously consider the validity of her registration AND her ability to be approved for breeding. They are 2 separate things.

The stallion’s page says he’s licensed Hanoverian and Oldenburg. I would call those offices and find out if his approval status is current. If not, registration is questionable for her (I don’t know the details so you’d need to ask them).

I would ask the owner if the mare is approved for breeding with Hano or Old. The assumption is that she is, if they truly are going to have the filly registered, but you can’t assume, since they may not know what they don’t know. Or, if you get ahold of someone in the above offices, ask them about her too.

$15k for a filly out of a TB mare of unknown breeding approval is quite high.

If you couldn’t care less about the filly’s breeding potential, then this matters a lot less BUT, if she ever has a career-ending injury, isn’t even rideable, then using or selling her as a broodmare opens up more possibilities. I like the dam’s pedigree for sport. But if that mare isn’t approved for breeding anywhere, breeding the filly is very limited in terms of where she can be registered. Maybe not a dealbreaker in any of this, but it should be considered.

@ZuzusPetals

I didn’t know that cribbing can have a genetic component,

@Tha_Ridge

it’s largely anecdotal, but many OTTB resellers have noted it,

It’s been fairly well proven that cribbing (and stereotypies in general) are genetic, and need something to trigger it (which doesn’t have to be a lot, depending on the individual)

[findeight]

“Registered” and “will be registered before sale” is not the same thing and leads to questions that MUST be answered before you fall in love with this nice filly and impulse buy.

Be careful here. We got lots of threads on trying to get advertised papers from seller after sale is final. One is currently running, on Of Course (Honey). Never sign the deal unless you have the papers in your hand.

[ZuzusPetals]

@JB

It’s been fairly well proven that cribbing (and stereotypies in general) are genetic, and need something to trigger it (which doesn’t have to be a lot, depending on the individual)

I love your insight. It’s interesting to me as the crowned champion night grinder, ladies’ division, in my dentist’s office. (The overall champion, I was told, was a CPA with three ex-wives. My dentist said he had an untouchable level of angst that he was working out by grinding and that I should be happy with my division ranking.) Grinding apparently is genetic and some researchers believe it’s best to allow us to do it, with protection, rather than try to stop it, as it may be how we process tension, etc. Sort of like cribbing seems to be self-soothing.

ETA: Yes, that filly is lovely. Even to my untrained eye her hunter future is apparent. Nice little girl.

[JB]

@ZuzusPetals

Grinding apparently is genetic and some researchers believe it’s best to allow us to do it, with protection, rather than try to stop it, as it may be how we process tension, etc. Sort of like cribbing seems to be self-soothing.

Night guard wearer here! LOL Nobody else in my family grinds, but that does’t mean anything.

And yes, it’s been shown that trying to prevent a cribber from cribbing just results in extra anxiety that manifests somewhere else. The problem isn’t the cribbing, that’s the symptom. If you can’t remove the cause, but you stop the behavior, that’s a horrible position to be in. Sometimes you can remove the cause, and the cribbing stops. But a confirmed cribber, who self-soothes and loves the endorphin release, is not going to be happy if he can’t do his OCD behavior

[NancyM]

She’s cute, and apparently correctly put together. If you like the pedigree too, and she “speaks” to you (saying “I’m the horse you are looking for”), you take the plunge, and put your money where your mouth is. Buying a foal (or a yearling) is much like buying a lottery ticket, but not as cut and dried as that. If the horse does what you hope she will do for you, you win. It doesn’t have to be worth 50 million in order for you to be a winner at this game. I’ve bought lots of foals and yearlings. Some have turned out quite well for me. Good luck!

[EquestrianDawg92]

Thank you so very much for your insight! I am shocked by how many honest and helpful responses I have gotten in less than 24 hours!

Cribbing is a no-no for me, so I will definitely be asking that!

To be perfectly honest, I have a good bit of research to do on the whole warmblood registry world! My retired hunters are a thoroughbred and a quarter horse, and I have never bred horses because I knew I would be a complete wimp and keep every single baby lol.

The warmblood ad was made while she was in-utero, so the details had understandably not been all hashed out yet.

Lastly, she was advertised for 15k, but when I contacted the owner, she said 10k.

Thank you so very much for your feedback!

[JB]

@EquestrianDawg92

I do know Rhianna has a full brother, and he is registered Oldenburg GOV,

Ok, that bodes well for the status of the dam. But I’d also wonder why the owner is saying the filly is already Hanoverian - going Old means she’d be an Oldenburg.

BUT, you’d still want to get clear on the status of the dam relative to breeding approval. A low level book may be what she is, but may not be enough to be of real value in getting the filly approved for breeding down the road. Just something to consider. And I would be asking the registries these questions rather than relying on what the mare’s owner thinks she knows

$10k is more reasonable for this.

[EquestrianDawg92]

Hi there! Thank you so much for the insight and honesty! I am that person to fall in love with a precious baby quickly, which is why I have not seen her in person yet haha.

Also, I did double check that the 10k would include sBs registration and lifetime USEF registration.

[JB]

How old is the full brother?

The idea of changing which inspection to go to is a valid one

If 10K includes those things, that’s even more reasonable. She really is a nice filly!

[EquestrianDawg92]

Do you have any experience with PPEs on babies? I have a vet appointment Thursday, so I will definitely talk it out with my vet, but I have never bought a foal, and I am curious as to how much can really be assessed at that age, as she is still growing, etc.

[JB]

@EquestrianDawg92

Do you have any experience with PPEs on babies? I have a vet appointment Thursday, so I will definitely talk it out with my vet, but I have never bought a foal, and I am curious as to how much can really be assessed at that age, as she is still growing, etc.

A little bit. Check eyes, ears, lungs, heart, watch her move in general. NO FLEXIONS. And unless there’s something really wonky in a leg or her back, xrays really aren’t useful at this age either. Lots of WB and WB crosses get, for example, stifle xrays, and vets see some OCD lesions and freak out, not understanding that’s VERY common in young WBs, and they almost always go away.

[EquestrianDawg92]

So it turns out that I was mistaking, and he is a half brother out of the mare. I am actually not positive about his registration either, but I will link her FB profile on here because he’s on there! She is also selling him. I wish I could include the videos she sent me of Rhianna getting clipped and “helping the farrier,” but it’s saying new users cannot upload videos. She seems so personable and level-headed!

[JB]

Oh he’s lovely!! I like him a lot. He’s just as nice as the filly. He’s only 2, so what you see can be a bit of an awkward growth phase.

That said, he’s registered with AES - Anglo European Studbook. Not Old. You definitely need to find out more with respect to the filly

[findeight]

Just another thought here…it is fabulous the seller here is willing to drop the price by 30 % before you even see the filly but its a bit unusual.

You might want to wait a bit before setting up that PPE, and are you using your own vet when and if you do see her?