Thoughts on a "warmdale" as a dressage horse?

[Green_pastures]

A friend of mine breeds clydesdales and has offered me one of his breeding mares for free as I’m very attached to her(and he’s keeping two of her fillies).

Shes 17 and has had 5 foals. Prior to breeding i showed her in hand and undersaddle as well as doing some dressage and hunting. Shes not 100% clyde(she’s 1/8th tb).

In the last couple of years while she’s been breeding ive started getting into dressage with my clyde/wb boy(out of the mother of this mare and by a Rubinstein stallion, not bred by me but bought as a weanling). I absolutely love my boys temperament and he’s so much fun to do everything with.

Hes now 8 and no longer a baby brain so I’ve been looking at buying another youngster but now I’ve been offered this mare im considering trying to replicate the cross since it worked so well with her mum. Unfortunately the wb sire of my boy died so I can’t cross back to him.

So I guess I’m looking for advice, is this worth it? Or did I just get really lucky with my boy?

If it is worth it then are there any bloodlines to steer clear of? (I’m not super familiar on wb lines asides from the big names)

If it helps, the mare is question is quite athletically correct. She managed to jump full wire with me. Her 3 clyde foals are all excellent types, her colt by a shire was exported and her (now 4yo) filly by a tb is being aimed for the 5yo jumping series and has lovely movement. The mare doesn’t have the standard clyde issues with cow hocks or a goose rump. Shes around 17hh and generally throws her height irregardless of the stallion. She’s very quiet and her foals all seem to have inherited her personality even from hotter stallions.

Thanks!!

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

OP you may want to cross post this in the sport horse breeding forum

There are some very knowledgeable posters there that could give you some valuable input and advice.

[SuzieQNutter]

At the CDI we went to last fortnight there was a clyde cross tb in the Grand Prix Dressage Arena. He is her 2nd one as the first one was so great.

[Ambitious_Kate]

Realize that, I think, not sure, but I think crosses like this have alot of possibility to throw very different-from-expected results. That said, you love this mare, you love her breeding, you love the horses she throws, and her relatives, and based on that, I would do it. There is nothing more loved than a horse with the breeding you choose and love dearly. Enjoy what you get! Ifyou are looking for guarantees for what the outcome will be, I don’t think you can expect that. But based on what you know of her, you probably have a pretty good idea of the kinds of horses you might get.

Please do go to the breeding section, here, and talk about clyde crosses with those folks. They may have some valuable insight.

[SillyHorse]

Okay, a pet peeve: the terminology is mares drop foals; stallions throw offspring.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Hunter_Mom]

There’s a couple of Clyde-WB crosses around here that are amazing, sensible boys. Their owner does all sorts of things with them from jumpers to Ultimate Cowboy. Neat horses.

[AnotherRound]

@SillyHorse

Okay, a pet peeve: the terminology is mares drop foals; stallions throw offspring.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Thanks. I wondered about that. I guess I pictured the mare throwing herself to the ground to give birth, yuk yuk. I am not up to date with breeding terminology. Although, I do know that foals are “by” the stallion and “out of” the mare, so I at least do have that down ok. Sorry!

[SillyHorse]

@AnotherRound

Thanks. I wondered about that. I guess I pictured the mare throwing herself to the ground to give birth, yuk yuk.

:lol:

[Scribbler]

Around here one of the eventing and lesson barns has put a lot of Percheron /TB crosses in the local market. They can look like Warmbloods, draft horses, heavy Lusitanos, and one looked like an Anglo Arab to me. The F1 cross can be unpredictable.

I did see a nice jumper mare from an out of town breeder who was crossing a modern leggy Clydesdale stallion on TB type Paint mares. Very nice big jumper mare, crazy pinto pattern, lots of bone and a nice big characteristic head.

I have also seen a “draft/Oldenburg” cross that is a smaller draft horse, the widest horse of that height I’ve ever seen, and totally nonathletic.

So I would be careful about the WB sire. The WB plus TB typically gives you a horse with more substance than the TB parent. I feel like you want as much TB as possible in the cross if you want a Warmdale. Otherwise WB plus draft could risk the horse being too heavy, a Lukewarmdale or a freak of nature like that poor Oldenburg cross.

[ladyj79]

Any breed you want to ride dressage on can be a good dressage horse, with the possible exception of a strictly gaited horse.

https://www.eurodressage.com/2012/04/04/airthrey-highlander-clydesdale-crossbred-grand-prix-new-zealand [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-attachmentid”:10744129}[/ATTACH]

[lorilu]

A friend here competes a full CLyde at 3rd, very successfully. Brian Kimble is his name.

[netg]

I am a big fan of a large portion of the draft crosses I know. Unless this mare’s foals are warmblood crosses so you can see what consistency is there and what to look for / avoid, it is a risky cross to pick because as noted above the types can vary widely. I would tend to look more toward PMU rescues and similar so you know what is on the ground. However, if you feel as if you can handle it if the foal isn’t what you dream of, I do believe breeding is part of the complete horse experience.
While I advise exercising caution, I know how wonderful and ammy friendly such crosses can be. My personal choice would be absolutely no way for me solely because I’m 5’1" and really big (wide, not just tall) horses are super hard for me to ride. I would not rule it out for anyone who doesn’t find large horses physically uncomfortable, but I do advise checking out what is out there so you know in the first place.

[exvet]

Ditto on what most of the others have said especially after having a couple of nice Clyde x TB crosses and a Percheron x Welsh cross in my past. All had solid brains and were great ammy horses but all were limited in how far they could go up the levels for a variety of reasons. I wouldn’t breed for a cross like that but I wouldn’t turn down an individual of such breeding who is already on the ground and appears to have been put together well and moves well with one exception, I can no longer ride such wide horses any more and this is coming from one who rides welsh cobs. So, part of the point is that what you see as a ‘more refined’ well balanced two year old draft cross can turn into more of a tank at 5 or 6 - not necessarily bad but can present a challenge to ride effectively for those of us who are more petite.

[Maude]

One of the nicest, best moving horses I’ve ever known was a Hannoverian/Clydesdale cross. Check out Southern Lights Dressage’s Facebook page and website. Amber Kimball is the trainer. Her husband who had never ridden before they were married shows a Clydesdale at 3rd level and just got his Bronze Medal and placed in the middle of the pack at regionals.

[lorilu]

@Maude

One of the nicest, best moving horses I’ve ever known was a Hannoverian/Clydesdale cross. Check out Southern Lights Dressage’s Facebook page and website. Amber Kimball is the trainer. Her husband who had never ridden before they were married shows a Clydesdale at 3rd level and just got his Bronze Medal and placed in the middle of the pack at regionals.

that’s who I was talking about.

[J-Lu]

I would not recommend it. While there are great crosses, I think the crosses that make it up the levels are somewhat rare. Drafts are bred for pulling in harness, and sort of the opposite of what dressage horses are bred for. Not to say good horses for dressage aren’t out there, but they’re a small percentage of the drafts bred. IMO.

I’d think long and hard if you really want offspring from this mare that you are fine going around training and first with or doing something else with and you are fine with the type you get, or if you really want to pursue dressage or another sport with.

If your boy is 8, why do you want another foal? Your boy should have a decade of dressage work in front of him. What level is he currently at? Are you happy with his progress? Do you like the clyde-cross best or dressage best?

Breeding is a crapshoot with such a cross. Consider something already on the ground if you have a specific plan. Or, be flexible to what you get.

[Green_pastures]

I guess I mainly just want another boy like mine and im trying to work out how to replicate him lol.

I’m looking at breeding/buying a foal since I now finally feel like my boy can tick along quietly improving, we don’t have any baby moments and he’s very low maintenance so I feel like I’ll have time to look after another now. Also if I breed my mare this year then its 1 year till baby is born, 4 years till starting undersaddle and 2-3 years before competition. By that point my boy would be 15/16 and winding down a bit anyway.

I’m not pursuing dressage in particular - in fact I’m from a family of crazy hunters and show jumpers and competed as a jumper for 15 ish years, ive just had too many folks for that sort of thing anymore. I just took up dressage because I missed the rush of competition and my trainer stole him off me as a 5yo to go to shows and he won several classes with her.

I’m not looking to go to the Olympics, or even compete at a high level, just looking for another superstar like my boy

[soloudinhere]

@Green pastures

I guess I mainly just want another boy like mine and im trying to work out how to replicate him lol.

I’m looking at breeding/buying a foal since I now finally feel like my boy can tick along quietly improving, we don’t have any baby moments and he’s very low maintenance so I feel like I’ll have time to look after another now. Also if I breed my mare this year then its 1 year till baby is born, 4 years till starting undersaddle and 2-3 years before competition. By that point my boy would be 15/16 and winding down a bit anyway.

I’m not pursuing dressage in particular - in fact I’m from a family of crazy hunters and show jumpers and competed as a jumper for 15 ish years, ive just had too many folks for that sort of thing anymore. I just took up dressage because I missed the rush of competition and my trainer stole him off me as a 5yo to go to shows and he won several classes with her.

I’m not looking to go to the Olympics, or even compete at a high level, just looking for another superstar like my boy

I think the difficulty here is that there’s no promises - even with a foal on the ground. Personalities and temperaments change, and with an f1 cross, you’re really only taking your best guess. I have a similar problem - I know my guys breeding, and have a chance to buy a foal out of his full sister, but even then, I know there’s a chance I won’t get what I want.

You should probably ask yourself what would happen if this horse did not turn out to meet expectations - as happens with horses who have “shoes to fill” so to speak - or how you’d feel if you were considering this horse without regard to what your current horse is like/has to offer.