Thoughts on Lentenor as a stallion prospect?

[Angelico]

Would some of the more pedigree savvy posters care to comment? Dynaformer has left this little guy has some big shoes to fill. What type of mares ideally should he cross with?

IMO everyone had some pretty unrealistic expectations for Lentenor on the track, and I think he would have stood a much better chance had he not been expected to be the “second coming”. His Florida derby attempt surprised me quite a bit, I didn’t expect to be impressed by him that day. To be honest though I am a crappy fan, all I know is he won a couple decent races, I don’t know if he ever won a graded stakes, heck did the horse even retire sound?

[Simkie]

Well, his full brother Nicanor sure didn’t light the world on fire either and is standing in Maryland for $2500 this season. I actually like the look of him better than Lentenor:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/166183/nicanor

If I wanted to breed to a Dynaformer son, I wouldn’t hit up either Nicanor or Lentenor. I have a hard time believing either one is really going to produce, and I wonder if either would even still be stallions but for Barbaro. Americain sure looks interesting, though.

[mintano]

If I went to any Dynaformer stud I would go to Americain. Better record than the two Barbaro brothers by $5 million and gorgeous to boot.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greyhorse_azeri/8294037551/in/photostream

[LaurieB]

If Lentenor wasn’t related to Barbaro, no one would even know who he was. His biggest accomplishment on the track was winning a $50,000 stakes race at Colonial Downs (that’s the bottom qualifying amount for blacktype.) Nor is his family anything special.

If I were looking to breed to an unproven son of Dynaformer, I’d be all over Brilliant Speed. Both his pedigree and his race record are eons better than Lentenor’s. I’d also be keeping an eye on Point of Entry who will probably go to stud in 2014.

[betonbill]

Have to say that I’m kind of disappointed that either of them are standing at stud at all. Would have much rather seen either or both have a simple little operation and then go to a retraining project like the one the Pittmans have going on right now.

Or maybe neither of them retired sound enough to do even that(?)

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=mintano;6746270]
If I went to any Dynaformer stud I would go to Americain. Better record than the two Barbaro brothers by $5 million and gorgeous to boot.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greyhorse_azeri/8294037551/in/photostream[/QUOTE]

Americain’s bankroll is deceiving. The majority of it comes from his Melbourne Cup win, a race which is a handicap. He was receiving weight that day, indeed under WFA conditions there would have been an 8lb flip in weights between him and So You Think. This is a horse that was no where near G1 standard in Europe, even as a stayer, never mind middle distance. He was also well beaten in three starts on turf in the US.

No doubt he is obviously more accomplished that either of the Barbaro borthers, but I’m amazed the Calumet went for this horse, and even more amazed that that are asking a $20k stud fee for him. I can’t see where the interest will come from among US breeders.
If I had to peek into a crystal ball I’d say that 5 years from now he will be standing at some provincial stud in France as a National Hunt sire for four or five grand a pop.

Absolutely gorgeous looking animal though.

[Toadie_s_mom]

[QUOTE=mintano;6746270]
If I went to any Dynaformer stud I would go to Americain. Better record than the two Barbaro brothers by $5 million and gorgeous to boot.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greyhorse_azeri/8294037551/in/photostream[/QUOTE]

Like Drvmb said- gorgeous! I’d breed to him for an event horse in a heart beat. Arazi on bottom is another plus for me. For a sporthorse, that is.

[Xctrygirl]

Well I will say this…

Be glad Man in Havana was cut and not put near the stud market. He’s a great guy but wow not made for passing on.

Trust me folks it could be so much worse!!!

Emily

[WhiteCamry]

We won’t know until those first babies set hoof to track/turf.

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

Isn’t the mare line as (or more) important than sire line? Maybe the potential is through La Ville Rouge? (Asking as an amateur onlooker …)

[Xctrygirl]

Mrs. F Check out the babies already on the ground by Holy Ground.

They should be hitting the tracks soon. Then you’ll know if LVR’s influence is good or no.

Em

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=MrsFitzDarcy&Feliks;6760017]
Isn’t the mare line as (or more) important than sire line? Maybe the potential is through La Ville Rouge? (Asking as an amateur onlooker …)[/QUOTE]

Short answer: no.

The most important stallion-making qualifications is talent, ability, performance on the track. And that’s where Lentenor falls short. His race record is pretty mediocre.

As for his pedigree, there’s nothing wrong with his sire except for the fact that Dynaformer has not yet shown himself to be a sire of sires (though he’s had very few chances to do so.) But since he was a premier sire who’s now gone, everyone’s looking for his replacement. Which makes Dynaformer on top a plus.

The dam’s side of the family matters but, in my opinion, not as much as the first two things. Lentenor’s female family is fine, but nothing special. Even after Barbaro won the Derby, two of his dam’s half-sisters sold for $1,500 and $3,500. So I doubt that will be the aspect that elevates the horse in the eyes of potential breeders.

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;6760334]
Short answer: no.

The most important stallion-making qualifications is talent, ability, performance on the track. And that’s where Lentenor falls short. His race record is pretty mediocre.

As for his pedigree, there’s nothing wrong with his sire except for the fact that Dynaformer has not yet shown himself to be a sire of sires (though he’s had very few chances to do so.) But since he was a premier sire who’s now gone, everyone’s looking for his replacement. Which makes Dynaformer on top a plus.

The dam’s side of the family matters but, in my opinion, not as much as the first two things. Lentenor’s female family is fine, but nothing special. Even after Barbaro won the Derby, two of his dam’s half-sisters sold for $1,500 and $3,500. So I doubt that will be the aspect that elevates the horse in the eyes of potential breeders.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for explaining, Laurie. As always, a well of knowledge.

[summerhorse]

I think both of these horses had more talent than they showed. By their frequent and lengthy vacations I suspect these are fragile horses. But it could have just been bad luck too. I wouldn’t throw out the baby with the bathwater though, they both have breeding and talent and Dynaformer went from $5,000 fee to $150,000 the hard way, by earning it! The best stallions show talent but are not always THE most talented of their crop.

[Louise]

If this is a fragile line, and I certainly don’t know enough to make a judgement, wouldn’t that be just one more reason NOT to breed to them?