The old adage: “Give it 15 minutes and it will take all day. Give it all day and it will take 15 minutes.”
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Nailed it! Let’s also not forget the fly twitch line that many horses get in summer that indicates some sort of shoulder nerve impingement. And swollen salivary glands which are ALWAYS caused by bad riding.
My blood is now boiling. Again.
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OMG! The fly twitch line. If I see one more picture like that I might scream.
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I must need cameras, because my Old Man in his Old Age gets these regularly in the summer, even when he’s on sabbatical. SoMeOnE iS RiDiNg HiM
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@MapleBreeze back to finish my incomplete thought - sorry about that - the saddle fitting thing can be as simple as a twist that is the wrong width. I crippled myself for a week and couldn’t ride for 2 after sitting 10 minutes in a wrong twist. My seat bones were literally bruised. In a saddle that fits me ok, I may feel them (my seat bones) if it doesn’t have a well padded seat, but I won’t be hurting! Note, the saddle above, the one that crippled me - very high end. Latest this that and the other, squishy seat, gorgeous leather, etc. It just wasn’t the right shape for me.
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If by “very hard” you mean pretty much impossible sure.
In my pro days, I rode a lot of horses whose primary issue was their owner’s lack of feel. I refer to this as “riding like an anvil”.
Most of the horses were anxious types who were real triers but very worried about possibly being in trouble. Anvils are not a good fit for this type.
One day I was helping one of these impossible to help clients at a local h/j schooling show with one of these “anxious trier” horses. I explained: this is just a schooling show, not the Olympics, and he is jjjuuust starting to learn lead changes so our plan is to just trot the changes and pet him for a nice calm down up transition. Ok?Who cares about whether or not we win this podunk schooling show, let’s make this calm can happy for everyone. Ok you have a few more before it’s your turn so go hang out quietly and calmly in the schooling area.
Ten minutes later doesn’t this owner come riding back reporting that she tried a lead change and he was so good that then she’d thought she’d see if he’d do a line of TEMPI CHANGES and he even got two of them before they fell apart.
Based on how smugly she reported this it was obvious in her mind she was showing her trainer and also the whole rest of the schooling area a thing or two about who knows how to ride, since we don’t see anyone else getting half a line of tempis in the schooling area of a h/j show, so she was surprised when my response was more along the like of “WTF?? WHAT DID I TELL YOU about the lead changes??!”
In her mind, she was showing off and impressing the rest of the schooling area. In her horse’s mind (who is always worried that maybe he made a mistake OMG what if I just made a mistake) she asked for a lead change, which he gave her, and then three strides later she asked for the other lead again. That reads an awful lot like WRONG ANSWER to a horse that is always worried he might have made a mistake.
But ok, you “showed off” to the other people in the schooling ring who aren’t even looking at you because they aren’t interested in what you’re doing. Good job. Congratulations, your trainer will now be putting Humpty Dumpty back together again and would you please for the love of Christ develop an interest in tennis.
That situation articulated something for me that I had had a feeling of but hadn’t yet been able to put into words, so here goes:
If you want to take a quick litmus test of your own riding, ask yourself what your head space is like when you’re working with your horse.
If your primary focus whenever you’re on your horse is making him feel like a rockstar, hey man this is a new environment today but you can do it, I promise you you can do it, come on just a little bit ok! there we go! now we’re rolling, good boy this is good but ok what do we think about our canter lead? here we can try again, there you go! Now we’re rolling!
…you ride like a professional.
If your primary focus when you’re on your horse is I just want to have a nice day I hope he doesn’t do anything bad YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY NOT BACK UP HERE!! FORWARD FORWARD omg I hope Susie with her rich husband and smug face didn’t see that WRONG LEAD IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE THE OTHER LEAD omg this is so embarrassing dammit we drove all this way and spent all this money and already we have backed up and started off on the wrong lead what a waste already today is a disaster omg I bet everyone at the barn is going to think I suck…
…you ride like an amateur.
And, remember how I said that this situation with this client and her fkn tempi changes in the schooling area articulated something for me that I hadn’t been able to clearly put into words before?
Well, I just described two different ways to think about this situation: https://youtu.be/NZBA9yVrVc8
Which I posted to COTH in this thread: Baby Green Hunter Moment VIDEO UPDATE on p 10
I was completely delighted with how my little red horse did that day. That video was his first trip, which obviously we did not complete. Second trip we went back in and still had a refusal and a bit of hesitation to go around the one turn, but he made it around!! He got so much more confident!! What a good boy! That day was a phenomenal success in my book.
And what was COTH’s response to that video?
Suffice to say, you can see the two different mindsets playing right out in the thread. 
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Brilliant.
It always surprises me when people complain that their horse embarrassed them (with one notable exception of a mare that would go into heat whenever off property…now THAT was embarrassing). This sport is humbling but you have to approach it with this idea that you are helping a prey animal through a potentially very stressful situation for them.
I took my green bean a few years ago in a w/t hunter class. It was supposed to be for 12 and under, but no one signed up, and he was super spicy so I asked the show management if they would mind if we did it. The ring is huge, and it was a breed show so there’s a ton of really scary stuff in the ring. He clocked around by himself like a champ despite doing airs above the ground earlier that morning in the warmup. Even though his show record looks really weird right now, the whole idea was to help him be comfortable with all that new stuff. And he did brilliantly.
I think the judge was a bit puzzled, but that didn’t matter. I was just happy with him. I’m sure people watching the show were like WTH…but I don’t care about that either.
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@meupatdoes that thread about your baby horse back in 2010 was my “introduction” to you on this board and I have enjoyed your perspective ever since.
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I love this! It totally took my WB mare to humble me enough in this respect. Only taking her to schooling shows where I don’t give two f’s what happens outside of coming home with clean breeches. I had to learn to laugh whenever she does something that seems ridiculous. Also, back to some previous comments, it is much easier to have this mindset when you have some physical fitness and the butt velcro that comes with it. Not all the way there with my mindset, but I’m getting there.
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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/equestrian-perspective/id1548234836?i=1000590919438 For those who felt THW did not offer enough “free” content, I have found another podcast with her. Not sure how much more is out there. But my point is just that she has made efforts at outreach/sharing at no cost.
I am not sure it is reasonable to expect everyone to keep up a super star level of SM exposure such as Warwick Schiller and others. Nashon Cook does a good job of offering very small teaspoons of SM content, but absolutely NOT giving away his techniques. Does anyone think he is trying to keep a “secrecy/cult” environment?
I believe he had a small SM blow up when a planned event, in partnership with another trainer, went kablooey. I forget the details. (Someone had told Trainer #2 something negative about NC training, perhaps ?) But if Nashon was a woman with “witch” in the business name, no doubt folks would have been plenty eager to rake him over the coals for this.
I don’t see that TWH is dramatically different from plenty of people who are operating at a similar level of the industry. They are NOT Pat Parelli or Anne Kursinski, but they do have devoted clientele.
I am a big fan of Mary Wanless. But for years whenever I would speak of her positively on COTH invariably the same (one or two people, I forget) would pipe up loudly about the bad experience they had. As if George Morris hadn’t been an insulting jerk for decades, one famous Eventing trainer wasn’t filmed walloping a horse over a water jump with a branch, etc, etc.
As a matter of fact, COTH has made a virtue of slamming Dressage Hub for doing what COTHers do here daily. Highlight a bad incident, day, etc and blowing it up to apocalyptic levels.
I find a very uneven application of suspicion, scorn, etc depending upon how ‘soft’ the target is.
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THW loves to play the victimized woman card, and she plays it quite a lot with much success I might add.
Everyone faces criticism and negative peer review, no one is immune, man or woman.
The big very public and ugly blowup between Gerd Hueschmann and Philippe Karl is a prime example. They both have their niche followers who vehemently defend either one, and you still catch the men making high school jabs at the other. Personally, I’ve gained positive insights from both over the years while ignoring the drama.
Speaking of women tearing other women down… You can’t forget the way THW so ruthlessly attacked Jec Ballou last year, it was ugly. It’s ironic how she seems to only cry “women should support other women” when that cry appears to only apply to those women who unquestioningly agree with THW.
I’m sorry, but respect needs to go both ways. One does not gain respect by crying victim and putting on a whole song and dance about it. One gains respect by being respectful. Period.
What most have issue with is the inability to ask professional critical and important questions without ruthless mean girl attacks from THWs SM clique.
What is even more ironic about THW using the victimized “women need to stop cutting down other women” line is that it is THW’s own women who do a majority of the attacking.
Pot calling the kettle anyone?
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No idea about who Jec Ballou is. Will do some googling.
Does my support of Mary Wanless count as “mean girl attack from a MW clique?” I notice you did not describe the Gerd/Philippe ‘blow up’ as having “vehement defender” While TWH has a “mean girl clique.”
I still see a lot of titrated judgement of folks depending upon their status in the food chain. Folks are ‘attachable’ based somewhat on their placement in the food chain.
I don’t think anyone is purposefully behaving irrationally because they ‘disrespect’ you. They are behaving as they feel they can in the given circumstances.
The cry of ‘they are not being respectful’ is a (oft deployed) cover for “they did not treat me how I feel they should, therefore they are low.” THW has a different point of view, this does not make them “disrespectful.”
“Respect” is a topic that could easily be it’s own thread. A lot of bad/unskillful things are done to horses to correct ‘disrespect’ or install ‘respect.’ Similar happens human to human.
The podcast I posted above does remind of Tara Sanders !! Lol If anyone missed out on the last 2 years of JT Thompson Livestock you missed some quality stuff. 
It appears I hit a few nerves. My apologies, I did not intend to trigger you.
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Again all of these statements come across as distractions from the core root of the issue at hand.
THW has lied about her credentials numerous times.
IME, anyone brazen enough to lie about something so easily disproven is quite willing to lie elsewhere in order to turn cards in their favor. Gender and Sex have nothing to do with it. And you’re right, the topic of respect becomes an easy distraction, just like all the other side points.
Dismissing the use of weaponized and performative vulnerability as gender inequality is a reach at best.
Dismissing someone’s valid experience of being doxxed and cyberbullied off SM as being “soft” is harsh to put it bluntly. Especially considering the incredible strength and courage it takes to be the first whistle-blower to point out the brazen lies about credentials. Which is where all of this started, all the other points about horses being injured and lack of substantial information being taught for extraordinary price tags surfaced later on.
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Agreed.
Credible trainers may have one blowup or public confrontation of some kind in their lives. How they handle that says everything about them. Very few let that happen a second time.
A horse pro that generates drama and conflict is a red flag.
Sometimes horse pros have publicly declared disputes with other horse pros, or have a rupture with a former colleague. Again if this happens repeatedly it’s a red flag.
A “horse pro” that has public conflicts with clients, or multiple public conflicts with clients, is way more than a red flag. It’s a giant flashing do not enter hazards ahead abandon all hope ye who enter situation.
A trainer that lies about their credentials is by definition committing fraud and if they were working in any of the regulated industries, this could be a crime and they could be arrested.
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Well said 
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You are completely ignoring power dynamics. Big name trainers have very few KNOWN public dramas. Which does not mean there is not a whole heck of a lot of activities that get swept under the rug. Few of these ever see the light of day. And even if they do, they continue to work in the industry, very often. Paul Valiere, Barney Ward. https://equineink.com/2021/10/13/bad-sport-horse-hitman/ (The Netflix documentary sounds interesting.). The “ I stand with George Morris” group was active for a few years. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still around. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/sports/equestrian-sexual-abuse-george-morris.html. There is a LOT of drama in ANY HIGH LEVEL sport/industry. But the big players can often hide their illicit activities for years or for ever. No doubt horse pros can use an nda in exchange for a payoff as well as an ex president. I gather that a LOT of COTHERS have never worked at a big pro horse barn.
I am sure they do. They are just smart enough to not blow it up on social media which is a good mark of cray cray
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Yeah. I have on purpose, and without giving a flying f*k, privately burned a few bridges in my day.
They deserved it 100%; my life was affected 0%; I got to enjoy watching karma come around; and zero people read about it on the interwebs.
Homeslice still didn’t get that cushy job he was applying (and 95% hired) for, though, and I got him back for beating up on my horse lo those many years ago.
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