Oy @meupatdoes your reading comprehension really needs some work. What I actually said was that I would NOT sell you a saddle.
I did say that yours didn’t fit, to which you agreed, acknowledging that
I do hope that resolved the balance issues I noticed.
Lots of other imagined occurrences in there that you are responding to as well. I’m no longer participating in your version of reality.
Sure, @no.stirrups, you had only the sweetest of intentions with your post.
It must be my failure in reading comprehension that caused me to suspect that you were being a jerk.
But ok, I guess every time you do a routine flocking maintenance it means you sold your client a saddle that doesn’t fit? Hey, you embarked on this path…
Let me guess, when it’s a saddle you sold to your client, then routine flocking is part of the normal maintenance of every saddle. Except when you decide to get gratuitously sh*tty with other people on the internet, then the fact that someone includes saddle maintenance in their care program like a normal and conscientious horse owner and has the saddle fitter come out regularly is clear gotcha evidence that saddle is totally wrong.
Perhaps you should give all your clients whose saddles still benefit from regular maintenance appointments refunds, then?
Textbook gaslighting to be a deliberate jerk and then claim it’s just the other person participating in a different version of reality.
Genuine question - besides the length of the saddle, what are you seeing from that photo that makes you know the saddle doesn’t fit/isn’t balanced? I have an easier time looking at these things in person.
Didn’t we just go round about saddle fit assessments on dynamic photos not long ago? And communally agreed that it’s impossible to determine much of anything from 1) a single photo and 2) of a horse that’s moving?
Why yes, yes we did.
I mean, teeccchhhhnically, it’s two photos…
Well that solves it.
Saddle doesn’t fit, and the horse probably has ulcers. Have you tried adding turmeric?
It is, though, if you really break it down. Maybe not presented in the way this gal does, but the fact that it’s nothing new is testament to that…for me, anyway. If you’ve never had that takeaway, that’s fine, I don’t want to argue the point, but I certainly have gotten the message of engaging/using the TS properly through certain USDF articles and Hilary Clayton’s work. For me, it’s hard to talk about the TS without also talking about the core, it’s all so intertwined. Bottom line, correct work is just that. 
How can you tell a single thing about saddle fit based on those lousy photos? I sent almost a dozen to my fitter, different shots, horse stood perfectly square, measurements marked, and I STILL had to have her out to check fit.
This is what gets me, too. Anyone who says that their way is the only way and they’re the solution to your forever problem immediately gets an eyeroll from me. How is this not Art2Ride and Will Faeber all over again? It always comes with the pitch that it takes “yeeearrrss” to develop a horse correctly-- which is true. They don’t tell you the goal of “developing.” Will says that it takes years for a horse’s poll to come above the withers. Come on now–anyone looking at this with a crumb of scrutiny should be able to rip that apart. Yes, it takes years for mere mortals to develop a horse, even a nicer one, to fourth level. A horse who requires a lot of retraining with its adult ammy owner might take a year or more to develop the throughness and consistency required for first level.
The reason these amateurs don’t progress above first level is any number of things. They can’t devote the time needed, their horse is unsound or untalented, they don’t have the financial resources, they live in the middle of nowhere, etc. Will Faeber never made it to the upper levels because he’s a talentless fool and he drinks his own Kool-Aid.
Mostly I gag at the predatory nature of finding insecure adult amateurs (usually women) and telling them you have all the answers. Sounds cultish, no? And then you can’t train with anyone else, or you undo all the precious work you’re been doing. This alone is strange. I have my usual trainer, and then I have a trainer I see on occasion and will jump in any clinic I can reasonably make and afford. When a clinician says something that differs from what my usual trainer says, I tell my trainer. We dialogue. That’s an incredibly important part of my learning process.
Being able to bring a horse above maybe first/second level as someone with a full-time job and one horse takes some natural talent. That’s an unfortunate hard truth. If you are a one-horse, one-career person who can ride a horse with throughness and some degree of collection, you are a rarity in the blanket of horse people worldwide. If you aren’t born of natural talent for riding, you must have a talent for learning. Where one falls on the spectrum of natural talent varies. Some have to put in way more work than others, but at some level, you must have a natural eye or natural feel, or you have to be a talented enough student to get there. Will Faeber and poking your horse in the neck will not get you above first level.
Building a little on this idea, I think the thing that gets me about TTHW is that she seems to me to be another symptom of social media driven “culture” where image and “vibe” have more influence on people’s behavior than anything actually helpful or useful.
The idea that a horse needs months/years of doing nothing but walk work in hand and it will somehow make him good at upper level dressage, is like saying that spending months/years strolling in the park and doing light stretching exercises is the key to success as an Olympic gymnast.
It could possibly be a useful adjunct to your regular ridden work, but horses (like any athletes) don’t magically build the strength to do intense work without doing intense work. If they aren’t doing some degree of intense work, they’re losing strength and fitness, regardless of what the “thoracic sling” and brachiocephalicus are doing.
To me, the Traveling Horse Witch is in the same bucket as Art2ride.
@enjoytheride You can’t tell that a saddle fits from pictures, but sometimes you can tell that it doesn’t fit, strange as that sounds. Here’s why: there are all sorts of lists online of the 9 points of saddle fit, or 7 points of saddle fit, or whatever number the next writer picks. In order for the saddle to be deemed a good fit ALL of those points need to be good. Some of these cannot be evaluated from pictures. That’s why you had to go to your saddle fitter.
On the other hand, if even one of the points fails then the saddle does not fit. For example, it can be perfect in every other way, but if it’s too long then it doesn’t fit. Or it can be perfect in every other way but if it’s too straight or too curvy, it doesn’t fit. Or it can be perfect in every other way, but if the horse doesn’t like it, it doesn’t fit.
Another thing that cannot be determined from pictures is what it would take to make the saddle fit. Sometimes a flocking adjustment can change what appears to be a hot mess to a perfectly good fit, and other times a saddle that looks pretty darn close is still not close enough that it can be made to fit. This needs to be evaluated in person.
@beowulf in the pictures in post 236 the saddle is not level. Granted the angle of the picture is not ideal, but try this: Tip your screen until the saddle is level, then look at the position you’ve put the horse in.
Another hint that things are off is in the rider position. The saddle is putting her in the back of the seat and although the stirrup leather is pretty vertical her foot is in front of her ear-shoulder-hip line. Tipping the screen so the saddle is level may make it more clear to you that her seat is not in the middle of the seat, nor is her pelvis perpendicular to the saddle but if you can, with your screen still tipped, imagine straightening her pelvis and moving it a smidge forwards into the middle of the seat, her leg position becomes really nice!
To keep this post on topic, could someone point me to the origin of the claim that Celeste’s way is the only right way? I missed that.
Uh…
I’m literally reaching around to the right of my body with my left hand and twisting/leaning my entire torso to take a picture of my shirt and vest for the matchy matchy thread, so this may not be the best picture from which to analyze rider position.
When you say the saddle is level - are you referring to the seat being level, or the cantle to pommel relationship? I can’t tell anything about the seat being level while a rider is in it, but it’s been my understanding for years now that cantle-to-pommel is not a reliable indication of a level saddle since so many saddles these days have a deep scoop-bucket seat and high cantles.
I didn’t really take rider position into account here given the circumstances behind the photograph being snapped. I have a different problem with my saddle: it fits my gelding, but it doesn’t fit me and I have to be mindful of the position it puts me in since it’s not ideal for my anatomy. However, it works for the horse and that is my main prerogative.
More turmeric.
Only less tampon porn and more braid-the-dead.
I ran across this with her comments but it was an example of an biomechanically incorrect rehab exercise. No explanation that I could find. Maybe that’s in the group? Is she referring to the canter part? Poles in general?
I know there has been actual studies about using poles specifically at the walk. If I recall it did affect the core. Maybe not proven for the thoracic sling? But hasn’t been disproven as well? I have not seen any studies about canter poles.
Does she advocate for any other rehab methods other than her own three exercises?
Here is one study although it’s using something like an equicore band as well.
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/how-walk-work-over-poles-benefits-equine-rehab-and-strength-793578 here is one about just walking poles.
I’m not sure if she thought that the post above was incorrectly worded or if poles are not useful at all?
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