In answer to “what gets people to buy”, the common denominator is usually desperation. I feel for them. For those who have actually taken the course, isn’t it just one simple exercise that you come away with?? One that is actually one of many that is commonly found (for free) elsewhere?
3 Likes
It fascinates me as a trainer…so all i have to do is make a facebook group with a paywall amd people will really pqy more than double what i charge for lessons abd all i have to do is take short videos and pics on my phone? That is way easier than spending 4 hours making a youtube video you might retain one client from…
But then i feel guilty/gimmicky so i dont take the plunge…and self doubt - my words could be wrong…
7 Likes
So everyone says it’s a pretty simple exercise but I can never find out what these are even a hint. I will say there is an allure to to join just to find out the super secret exercise. But I’m not sure how I feel about that…
I said really things that could potentially be harmful to the wrong horse? isn’t that the reason It has to be supervised by the group?
2 Likes
I haven’t subscribed to this particular trainer’s program, but have paid for other online training programs. We have limited access to dressage trainers around here, and I find that the online content helps me make the most of the trainer access I do have. Overall it’s made me more well-rounded than just working with one instructor on a limited basis. When I subscribed to TRT a few years ago, it was out of desperation after a cowboy trainer got my young horse in a wreck and fried her brain.
3 Likes
I don’t know anything about this Witch lady but you have to be able to offer something that is hard to find elsewhere or really exceptional or unique. I have paid money for online courses from instructors that give me something I can’t get any other way. There is also a nearby trainer who thought she’d jump on the paid video course bandwagon and she is very average- I’m not going to pay for her course because I can get that sort of instruction anywhere. So, no, it’s more than “all I have to do is make a FB group w a paywall”. I also have to be able to “audit” in advance- either a few free videos or a short trial before I shell out my money, just like any other instructor.
6 Likes
That’s just it, right?!?! It’s a super simple exercise, but possibly “harmful” if she doesn’t supervise you?? That is so hokey. From what I can surmise, it looks like she wants the head/neck down low and relaxed and then she has one little snippet video where the horse is taking a step to the side like a turn on the haunches. What does she do to her followers, make them sign something that says they can’t share with others??? The whole premise is just strange, and I’m sure it’s much ado about nuthin’.
17 Likes
I know a lot of people swear by her and her method and I have seen some positive changes but the full secretness is weird and perplexing.
5 Likes
Where do we find a snippet video? Im really curious now.
If the brachiocephalicus muscle on a horse is thicker than a $50 steak you start in hand and poke your finger into it (sometimes asking at the same time with the bit) until the horse changes the muscle group to the one above that the words escapes me for.
And you rinse and repeat in hand/lunging/riding on your young horses, rank craigslist ponies and inverted ottbs (those the most).
Otherwise your horse will use that incorrect muscle group against you.
Its that easy - poke!
3 Likes
“a lot of people”…are these actually people you personally know or do you just mean social media hype? Also, how experienced are these people? “positive changes”, do you mean the misleading before and after photos or again, are you seeing these horses in person? Truly curious questions, not trying to agitate. I’ve seen the supposedly miraculous pictures, but if you look at them with a critical eye, you can see they’re staged. I can do the same thing with my horse in a period of 5 minutes…make him look awful and then great depending on positioning and lighting. Also, I don’t think these folks are really ever riding their horses either, I agree with you… it’s just so weird.
6 Likes
I can’t remember where I saw the video, it must have been in some ad. I’m certainly not going to pay the $$ to find out. LOL!
On social media but blogs that I had been following years before the traveling witch entered the picture. But yes you’re right pictures can definitely be deceiving.
One of the blogs that I follow is a gold medalist in Dressage. But she’s taking a different path now… Although it does seem like she rides regularly.
Regardless, I understand your point.
2 Likes
With all due respect, do you know this to be the case, or are you just speculating? I.e., are you in the group, and/or do you know people in the group? The group is not about riding per se, so people aren’t really posting much about their riding exploits. I know several people in the group who DO ride, for what it’s worth (but they aren’t posting it in the group because it’s not really relevant). But, to your point, I would love to see more posts from people who have incorporated this work into their riding and competition at higher levels of their sport.
3 Likes
I don’t think it’s an exercise, really. It’s more of a perspective of how you expect your horse to exist in the world in terms of posture. It’s about requiring a looseness in the “wrong” muscles and activation of the “correct” muscles (and really understanding the physiology/anatomy behind this), to a degree I’ve not heard from any other trainer (and I’ve ridden with a handful of BNTs, and lots of “average” GP trainers, so it’s not like I’m new to issues of posture and performance). 95% of the trainers I’ve ridden with espouse the virtues of riding your horse with correct engagement of the various parts of the neck and shoulder, but Celeste takes it down to a very, very basic and fundamental level. Which for me and my horse (and clearly many others who have found benefits from the group), is a very good and necessary thing.
I just wish her teachings for how to achieve this were more clear 
10 Likes
Not talking out my arse, lol, but good question!! I do know some in the group (like I said, they tried to get me to join), have talked to a few others. One I was particularly intrigued with since it was claimed that the horse had been “saved from euthanasia”!! After a few follow up questions, I was able to get the information I was looking for…horse is still not rideable, but has “better posture”. And yes, like you, I’d love to see if her information is useful to someone who already considers development of the TS in their training program or at higher level of sport, specifically jumping/dressage.
2 Likes
But is IS an exercise, done very specifically, but it’s still just a movement broken down into 3 parts, correct?? Does she make those who pay promise not to tell/sign something or…??? Your last sentence is interesting, how do you wish her teachings were more clear? Once you’ve signed up/paid she helps you, correct? Or are you referring to her podcase, which was excruciating to get through, LOL!
1 Like
Edit Feb 27, 2023 - Dear TTHW Disciples, don’t bother liking this, I got a LOT smarter about Celeste Leilani’s shenanigans a bit later in the thread
I can speak for one friend that I know is in the group, developing her young horse (yes, even riding and showing!) and will tell you that she has absolutely no interest in posting misinformation anywhere. The images of her horse’s drastic changes were not staged or done in 5 minutes or any of that. Maybe some are, I don’t know. I do know there is at least one that is not and I also know that the changes in that particular horse could not have been achieved by you in the span of five minutes.
4 Likes
I will say that horses (especially young ones) change all the time (and hopefully for the better!), so that it can be difficult to pinpoint exactly what made that change. You said your friend is riding and showing, correct? So not just doing the one particular ground exercise that is alluded to? That could also be contributing to her horse’s development. The pictures I’m talking about are horses’ “before & after” where the lighting/stance/etc. were slightly adjusted, it’s enough to make it look like a big difference. To be clear, I’m not saying they’re doing that in 5 minutes. I’m just saying that personally I’ve done enough photo shoots of horses where they look like a nag in one picture and a derby winner in the next, LOL!!! I’m not the only one to notice this. If you want to sign up for the program, great, I’m just saying to take in all the information you can and go in with eyes wide open.
6 Likes
Isn’t it wrong to play off of desperation? Such that you have a super secret exercise that only you know how to teach but keep it securely behind a paywall and that you forbid all other people from even speaking about it?
When I talk about my dressage trainer and how she’s helped me in reality she’s not much different from other dressage trainers in what needs to change, but it’s the way she teaches it that connects with me. There’s nothing that forbids me from discussing her ultra secret method of getting me to ride the outside of the horse but my talking about it isn’t going to mean that people suddenly ride with me instead of her or that her services aren’t needed.
17 Likes
Edit Feb 27, 2023 - Dear TTHW Disciples, don’t bother liking this, I got a LOT smarter about Celeste Leilani’s shenanigans a bit later in the thread
Ok, whatever. But I’m going to ask you this. What possible benefit can individuals have from posting fake images? What is their gain?
And, no, in terms of my friend’s horse, the changes made absolutely did not come about from riding. We are talking what appear to be structural changes. What (many) vets told her was congenital and would not go away ever.
No matter how negative and saying you want to be, you don’t actually know any of these people or the circumstances in which they took their images. You don’t know whether those after images are “posed” or whether those horses are standing in their new normal.
Mostly, neither do I, except for one, very, very dramatic before and after that I can vouch for.
4 Likes
i wonder how much the way we manage our horses 23 other hours a day is to blame for this underdeveloped shoulder muscling thing?
Freedom to move over land, up and down hills especially, wouldn’t that help a horse use her/his body properly? When my coach came down to our farm and looked over the fresh batch of mustangs the first thing she exclaimed was: “Those SHOULDERS!”
Dressage training and having moved my domestic herd onto a pasture with a great big hill in the middle of it has put big cushy butts on the horses. So, terrain and i guess(?) good training has also done wonders for my three or four in-training domestics.
20 Likes
