Exactly. Naming yourself “The traveling horse witch” is a gimmicky marketing tool that would turn off most people of my age instantly, and entirely. Most people that I know anyway.
Perhaps there are generational differences that make some people take that self-title as serious, or interesting?
These super emotionally charged comments are really over the top and what I’ve come to expect from followers of programs like this. Alisa’s response was rational/balanced, and I appreciated that input. Stirrup gal and sasha…yikes! And I thought we’d bond over our mutual distrust/dislike of Schleese. Guess not, LOL!
(Bolding mine.)
Now this is where it gets weird for me.
Believing that someone is “lost” and has a “closed mind” because they don’t get with the (apparently expensive) online training program of someone who advertises themselves as “The Traveling Horse Witch” seems an overly dramatic reaction to me. It’s just over the top, more than the usual reaction I would expect to come from anyone in any training program, when questioned about the training methods they are paying for.
It’s not a religion, right? 
You aren’t necessarily lost or closed minded, if you don’t jump on every expensive bandwagon that people with odd marketing slogans are selling.
I partake in a number of things that are complex in theory and practice, but I find that the things I understand I can also describe and give a one minute super simple explanation of how it works. Both horse things and professional things. So when someone can’t really explain the parameters of a training program or methodology or theory I assume either the practitioner or the client is confused. That tells me the practitioner is either contradictory or else deliberately mystifying things, or the client is a poor student. It’s not always the practitioners fault. But very often it is.
And I say this as someone who actually believes in the benefits of gymnasticizing horses and building the ab strength over time. I’m curious if the Horse Witch is doing a variation on things I already know about, or is bringing something new to the table.
But is it science if we have to “open our minds?”
Correct dressage training is all, in a nutshell, the same. The difference is how a trainer explains it to us. The idea that there is a until now undiscovered method that is so secret it’s behind a paywall but is the one true way to sound horses confounds me. I don’t expect to get good training for free, but the secrecy is what gets me.
Ok, so while before-and-after photos aren’t particularly scientific to begin with, I have a real issue taking this “program” seriously when it’s claiming miraculous results from photos taken at completely different angles. Example below.
Why not take the photo from the same angle, in similar lighting, if there’s truly a significant difference to be seen?
She may be a good rider/trainer, but these claims are a lot heavier on the “witchcraft” than the “science.”
I can make my horse look like either an absolute hunk or a poorly-conformed donkey depending on the angle of the photo.
Also, the majority of humans do not have thoracic outlet syndrome, contrary to her claims on this page.
I have had only one massage therapist work on my horse who made an effort to focus on these muscles…that one gelding was a real eye opener to see him respond and really lean in and it did change how I work on my own horses. They all love getting ‘worked on’ in their shoulders and elbows and such- but none moreso than that first gelding. Hindsight tells me how much he was using his whole body to protect some old stiff areas and such.
I don’t think she’s changing the world here, but there is a lot to be said about riders grasping how much we ask of these good critters and how much we should invest in some good massage time, stretches, etc- as someone else mentioned the Masterson method is a good approach, and there are many websites and books that speak to the thoracic sling as important.
here’s a great video
And another (someone will hyperventilate about the set up, the bike, the firewood, etc)
The Witch is paying her mortgage with it, which will last as long as it lasts LOL.
Remember “Healthy Strides” the farriers who glommed onto Parelli? Oh, here’s old Jim. He shod for me a little while, then moved onto “Shoeing horses for fat women who never ride their horses” - That’s a paraphase from a friend who went on a date with him… once 
To quote Albert Einstein:
" If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough. "
Reading more of what has been provided here, it sounds like horse hockey to me (to quote SO). I try not to be negative on big platforms like this but this “program” really reads as a scam / high cost buy-in with the ‘exclusive content’ paywalled to prevent the collective from finding holes in their theories. AKA… cultish.
It is very likely parts of the program are just basic, good horsemanship with an understanding of building exercises to improve the condition of the horse… but you do not need exclusive membership to unlock these exercises… just buy one of the million books out there by accredited professionals from Ingrid Klimke to the 101 Exercise books. They work, but they require you be a self-starter rather than spoon-fed.
i don’t begrudge anyone pouring themselves, and their money, into their horses. I mean, for a lot of us, our horses are our obsession.
From the little i could glean from this lady’s program, a lot of it makes sense to me. I LIKE getting a horse off a longe line and going to free longe instead. I like loosening the nose band and dropping off that mouth strap below the bit. And alllllll the apparatus, the trusses…like the things that shape a horses frame. All that freedom theory she’s passing to an owner with a horse in-training makes me happy. Now…what i think though is that she’s (the witch) is probably not getting to as many of the target audience (intensive training folks) as she is hobby riders…so with the exception of getting somebody out from under a trainer who subscribes to all the cranking on their frame, she’s pretty much preaching to the choir.
Hmm. Two thoughts.
First many lower level competitive riders, including anyone with a Pony Club foundation or a race track back ground, is amazingly unaware of biomechanics and may completely lack useful ground work skills, even if other aspects of their horse management are meticulous. These are not necessarily wide spread skills.
Second, for those of us who have figured these things out, her self presentation is off putting. One thing I look for in both scholars and trainers is credentials and influences. It’s true that many low level trainers exaggerate their credentials and claim to “have studied with Klimke, DuJardin, Anke” etc when all theyve done is audit the annual BNT clinic that rolls through town. But from someone claiming advanced skills in body work and rehab I like to know what they trained in and where they get their inspiration.
When some one presents themselves as emerging from nowhere I suspect they are self taught and ignorant of when they are reinventing the wheel. And hope for a naieve clientele l.
but…what if she’s ‘gifted’?
I also think Masterson Method’s offerings help demonstrate why this woman’s approach puts people off. Masterson Method can seem a little woo-woo at first - bladder meridian? Egg touch? And I’m always wary of a ‘method’ named after the founder. But… he offers tons of free videos, some of which are super long, and there’s a pretty robust book as well. If you’re interested in MM, you can watch a couple videos for free and go to the barn and give it a shot. The worst thing you might do is slightly annoy your horse, I guess? If you like it you can learn more on your own, and maybe eventually hire an MM practitioner or become one yourself.
In this era, you HAVE to give knowledge away to demonstrate your value and expertise, and build trust with your audience. People need to have an idea of what they’re paying for, and I wonder how far Masterson would have gotten if you had to fork over $150 or buy a private session just to find out what he was talking about. Secrecy creates curiosity and hype (clearly, look at this thread) but it’s not a long-term strategy for creating a sustainable business.
Agree. Claiming that you spent about 30k on education doesn’t really give much information. It feels like everything is pretty generalized on her website. Also, I don’t get a good sense of her title…is she a trainer? Massage therapist? I’m curious, as she could be absolutely fantastic in solving issues.
Agree! I subscribed to Warwick Schiller’s website 3 months ago. I’ve never subscribed to anything like that before. My motivator was a challenging experience with a newish young horse. I was comfortable subscribing because: a) I had watched a ton of his free videos already so I had a feel for what I would be getting and b) he offers a 10-day money-back trial. I do feel like the $30/month subscription offers good value above the free videos, but I wouldn’t have jumped into it without them, or if he cultivated a sense of mystique about himself/his methods.
I’m not throwing mud on Visconte Simon Cocozza. I’m sure he’s an accomplished trainer and teacher, and maybe that’s his name and not a royal title from a country which no longer recognizes royalty.
But your post about woo-woo alarms makes me wonder, do you remember Friesian breeder and VIP of that world, Genevieve de Montremare of the famous Rochechouart family? How could anyone forget the Raisin Queen of Fresno.
I’d never heard of Genevieve de Montremare before, so I had a quick google … that was a wild ride. How did a waitress/beauty pageant contestant with a fake French accent manage to convince people that she had a doctorate in genetics and was from literal horse-breeding royalty, to where she was massively prominent in the Friesian community … and nobody really suspected a thing? Or did they? Nobody she grew up with said “wait, she’s not French”? Did she even speak French, or just have the fake accent? And she faked leukemia walking around with IVs and everything, then faked her death over 10 years ago and hubby got caught faking medical records to get her controlled substances after she “died” … but apparently she’s still alive out there somewhere with an undisclosed medical condition … where are the horses? I saw a blog referencing one being rescued from slaughter after she “died” … did she just dump all her horses so she could play possum?
Holy fruitbat… Someone needs to write a book.
Oh god, I remember it. Weird. Just weird. 
So this horse looks over at the knee, are the experts claiming being over at the knee is due to TS weakness? Generally curious because I have one over at the knee, (not a dressage rider.) And I have never heard of TS. Trying to learn.
I only knew that name in passing - aligned with batguano-craziness of some kind and Friesians … but now, thanks to this thread, I have gone down the rabbit hole.
Whoa. 
There’s two kinds of OATK - one is mechanical and man-made and way more common. The other is functional OATK, which the foal is born with. This is very rare.
Mechanical OATK is caused by chronic compensation from a combination of inappropriate angles in the hoof and hard work and/or stressors to the tendons/ligaments because of compensation from poor farriery. In these cases, the physical presentation of OATK can be reversed once the hoof angles are corrected. Which takes time.
I wouldn’t believe them that it’s caused by ‘TS weakness’. The thoracic sling might be compromised in the way that other compensating muscle and ligament groups in the body are, but it’s not an origin point of OATK conformation.
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