It really comes down to doing your due diligence, which is very time consuming but important. Many people (most people that I know) check the qualifications of “internet experts” very carefully.
If you do your due diligence and find that you are are OK with “traveling horse witches” who fudge their CV, then throw your money to them, no one is stopping you.
For the sake of people new to the anatomy and physiology (as well as the common ailments) of horses, this traveling horse witch does not present themselves as any where near worth an $150. investment.
It is not cool to rip off people who want to help their horses, no matter what pretty bow the ripper offer wants to wrap their con in.
It should tell you that I’m not going to waste time scrolling back to verify screen names but I do retain substantive information fairly well.
Keep insulting people who are trying to learn and better their horses’ lives. Hope you aren’t a pro—you sound just like the type I run far away from these days.
Let me get this straight. I’m insulting you for calling out incorrect statements, and your memory is far superior than taking the time to fact check your own accusations… So that means I am projecting onto you.
Interesting logic considering you entered this forum guns blazing, but to each their own.
Apparently you think that you got your $150 worth from the Traveling Horse Witch, on the internet. That’s fine. However, that doesn’t mean that anyone else will. Especially people who could spend their money with people who actually know that ligaments don’t “break”, and don’t advertise their credentials dishonestly. $150 worth of books would be money better spent.
If you are OK with being lied to that’s fine. I don’t have patience for people who rip off inexperienced people who can’t tell a fraud when they see it. It is always the fault of the fraudster for taking the money of people who are just hoping to train their horses but end up believing this sort of nonsense.
That said, learn from this sort of thing, do your (g) research before handing over your money.
I did learn from this thing. I learned some things that helped me and my horse. It’s amazing that you just don’t like hearing that because it doesn’t conform to the way you think I should have done things.
Anywho, weather will be lovely where I live this weekend, I plan to ride my horse out in the fields and enjoy the sun. Yes. Lowly older amateurs that read things on the internet sometimes, actually ride their horses, contrary to the “observations” of some in this thread.
Good to know you feel you’ve got your money’s worth.
It seems as if many people have not, and have been caught up in cultist internet weirdness caused by an apparently unqualified “expert” selling their services. Nothing new under the sun.
Cults and MLMs are bad. It is important to see the types of behavior you are talking about and not get sucked in. It’s too bad it seems this is how so many business people are choosing to act, especially when the product is total crap. Don’t get me started on saddle sales. This product, the BTTM stuff, isn’t total crap. It’s like crap with some actually interesting stuff thrown on top. Like everything else, you have to critically consume it.
But it isn’t just $150 - she charges between 3-5k for some type of certification - all while seemingly refusing to actually provide her certifications and credentials.
Situations like this should be called out because the horse, without a voice, is at risk. I have no idea what her “nerve releases” (etc) entail, but her lack of transparency makes me extremely uncomfortable.
At the end of the day, the horse suffers due to the ego of the human. Even the most talented and knowledgeable horse people can be humble, and the best usually are.
You never know. Someone’s beast may be a perfect fit for that saddle.
On the other hand, apparently, you (g) may not even speak of the TTHW’s methods without rebuke after you’ve paid your $150 bucks (for “crap” topped with tasty bread crumbs) without being vilified online.
It’s good to discuss these people. Everyone really needs to do their homework before they give money to strangers on the internet, especially (among other important issues) where horse training is concerned. Too many chancers, trying to make an easy buck, not caring who they hurt, horse or human.
So how does this work? People just stumble across a FB post from Celeste and think it’s amazing and join? I mean I figure if you were thinking about biomechanics or learned the term for the first time, you’d Google and come across Hilary Clayton and Straightness Training and maybe Deb Bennett and maybe that pontificating French guy, Jean Luc Corneille? I mean there’s so much stuff out there on a spectrum of excellent to problematic :). And now that the “pillars” are explained here I see they are just dumbed down versions of basic dressage inhand work.
Do people just go wowza, biomechanics and lifting the torso and getting off the forehand and think “this is all brand new and amazing?” Or is it that she makes it so simple?
I mean there are umpteen pictures of horse center of balance in relation to riding and saddle fit and dressage. It’s around or just behind the withers. It can’t logically be in the poll or the horse would topple over and it is not in the loins unless maybe if the horse is rearing or in levade. How do those illustrations line up with what she’s saying?
Or do people just click and pay on anything that catches their eye without even trying to get a bit of context?
There is nothing wrong with a CWD saddle if it fits the horse. For that to happen the tree needs to be the right match for the horse. If the tree doesn’t match in terms of rocker and drape it will of course be awful but this is true of every single saddle. That’s why ammie owners need to read up on the fairly basic concepts of saddle fit and not get sold a line by a fast talking rep.
Sell your saddles on, they will be a great fit for someone
You have far more patience than I, but I commend you for having a knack for bringing the subject back to point.
Sure, I felt like I gained helpful tidbits from different perspectives when I joined the course early on, but I didn’t just take what worked and then stopped following altogether. I paid attention to the direction of the course, and recognized when things began to turn. The direction the courses are taking are light-years away from what had made the original philosophy so appealing. I would dare to say recommending anyone to take the masterclass at this point is subjecting them to a whole heck of a lot of crap to wade through before ever finding anything helpful, the average novice isn’t going to know any better and what a disservice for them!
When I began to recognize fraudulent behavior and later learned of the countless lies that surround THW. I have the ethical mind to not recommend a course that has so many red flags surrounding it. Regardless if there was a tiny sprinkling of helpful information wrapped inside a boatload of crap.
So yes, it’s not only important to be able to discuss these things openly, it’s the ethical thing to do.
I did ask for clarification on this some time ago after bearing witness to THWs ruthless attack on an amateur rider who trains her own horse to higher levels of dressage than THW has experience in by her own confession. The amateur had a photo of an early developing piaffe with correct lowering of the haunches and poll the highest point. THW seemed to claim the horse had a false lift of the sternum by way of poll flexion and therefore, according to THW, the horses weight was all in the poll, and it was a false collection. When asked to procure an image of what THW considered to be a correct piaffe, no image was provided and the topic seemed to be avoided with distracting chatter of unrelated topics.
It sounded like nonsensical drivel to me, but I am no expert.
If you pointed out that impossibility she would probably suddenly claim a PhD in physics… How exactly can weight be in the poll? Is that what happens when the nuchal ligament breaks?
