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You seem to have more invested in this than just participating in a FB group. I can’t figure out why you are so offended by someone having a different experience than you.
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Not at all what I’m offended by—just not going to stand for the nasty and condescending tone from those who insist I’ve been duped or have poor judgment. I really don’t need people to tell me what to think. But they persist, and when I say I don’t agree with their assessment of me and my judgement or horsemanship, the put downs continue. Scribbler in particular has a really nice way of twisting the knife in the final lines of her scribbles. I came to share my own experience with the OP and tone down some of the ridiculously mean spirited and smug commentary about people who might have found some value for their money in the BTTM group… It’s pretty easy to go back and see the conversation yourself. I can’t help that people piled on but I will respond when directly spoken to and demeaned.
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The person who seems to be expecting some sort of (private) “professional” courtesy between people who don’t seem to have even close to equal professional qualifications (one a DVM and one whose qualifications are a mystery) reminds me of some of our well known hacks. They demand the attention of people that are much more qualified than they are in the name of “professional courtesy” when they themselves have no professional credentials.
In the screen shot presented here, someone seems to be demanding professional courtesy on their friend’s behalf?
That’s even more ridiculous.
Hopefully no one else will lose money dealing with this person.
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Look, I’m not intending this to sound mean or anything. But I really feel like you are reading tones and intentions behind words that just aren’t there. There’s a lot of incredulousness, disbelief, a bit of frustration, and a whole lot of sympathy for those who are desperate to help their horses but are being duped, but no nastiness or condescension.
Seriously, if the method helped explain basic concepts in a new way to you that you found useful, that’s great. A lot of people just had different experiences. And others looked into it and found a bunch of red flags.
I said before, if a person HAD to choose a single method to follow that would be the most benefit to their horse and training, this would not be a good one to pick. I think you misunderstood what I said then too, actually, since you thought I was saying you said to only use this (i wasn’t). Its just not comprehensive. It’s like the art2ride people that pick one good concept and run it into the ground. Except you pay a lot more money for it.
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To be direct, no one questioned this.
To be frank, no one disagrees that the original Pillars are helpful.
There are quite literally over 1000 comments and everyone here mutually agrees that yes, the original 3 Pillars do offer benefit, it is also nothing new, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
It’s the mess of whatever else has been piled on top with astronomical prices that is the problem, where people are being duped is in the funnel towards higher priced items, with close to zero clarity of what these higher priced items actually entail beyond common MLM style marketing tactics that could easily apply to anything. Sprinkle on top of that countless lies of various degrees and licenses, none of which can be validated anywhere. That’s the dupe here.
I don’t think it is too bold to say that nearly everyone here can see clearly that because you did not explore BTMM beyond the original 3 Pillars, of course being duped would not have been your experience.
In hindsight, I believe the miscommunication happening here is that your comments strongly come across as someone who does not believe those who have explored further and have been duped who are here sharing first hand accounts, all because that wasn’t your experience.
It comes across as deeply invalidating and insulting to those who have been affected first hand… those who have managed to find one tiny corner of the internet where it is actually safe to discuss these things openly, because lord knows if you so much as mention any of this on any other SM platform, the flying monkeys swoop down mercilessly. Many earlier screenshots in this very thread exhibit this exact issue clearly.
Despite your accusations, I have been completely honest and have zero motivation to lie here. Quite literally nothing to gain from any of this… if anything, I’ve lost valuable time here, but that’s obviously on me.
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Betsy is one of the earliest BTMM trainers, a known acolyte of THW, she is demanding professional courtesy for THW in this comment under a post that wasn’t even about BTMM. It exhibits the far reach and absurdity of the entire situation.
FWIW, THW does encourage and reward this type of behavior from her acolytes.
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While searching for the other acreenshots I stumbled on this gem. Where a woman who attended a nerve release clinic describes some extremely disturbing insights as to what goes on behind the scenes.
Glorifying pain responses this severe in any bodywork is deeply concerning.
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Imagine causing that much pain, (to receive that type of reaction), without sedation and local anaesthetic. What a complete and total pile of dog feces.
That anyone can continue to defend The Traveling Horse Witch and any of her practices is astounding. The information on the “pillars” can be found other places - go find it in a safe place and steer people towards those sources rather than defending that stinking pile of compost even one more time.
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That is horrifying to read.
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Yes, that’s horrifying. I can’t imagine what she’s doing.
I’ve had a series of body workers over the years. Different modalities. Very self protective and expressive mare. They’ve never pushed her past a bit of pissy face. I cannot imagine inflicting that kind of pain on a horse and thinking it’s OK. Even from just the behaviourist point of view you shouldn’t do that, let alone if she’s causing structural damage. Do I catch a whiff of sadism in the post? They are enjoying causing pain, being a bit gleeful? What did I say days ago, Munchausen Syndrome by Clinician?
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Yes.
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Every bodyworker that has ever worked on my body has ALWAYS said, “Tell me when it’s too painful.” Imagine if they didn’t do that and kept banging away on something that was extremely sore and painful. Ugh. Every bodyworker that has ever worked on my horse has backed off when they start showing aggravated pain responses. Maybe they modify the pressure, maybe they try a different technique. They still get a release, but always with the utmost empathy for the sensation a horse is going through. I’ve never seen any of my horses try to shake them like a rag doll. If your horse is shaking you like a rag doll, it’s because it is TOO MUCH and they are SCREAMING at you to STOP.
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I’ve never understood this compulsion some people have to defend themselves from perceived criticism from anonymous people on an internet board.
Nobody knows who you are. Therefore any criticism toward the followers of Celeste is not actually a criticism of you personally.
You feel attacked. And yet, again, nobody knows who you are. How can someone attack you if you’re invisible?
If you are a believer, more power to you, and go forth feeling strong in your belief. Let the unbelievers do their thing, it doesn’t affect you.
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I’m still trying a picture a horse whose center of gravity is in his poll.
And that whole “heart of a warrior, body of an athlete, soul of a zen master, touch of a lover” post is super weird and vaguely creepy. Is she trying to do her “techniques” on rogue stud colts that haven’t been out of their stalls in a month? Or unhandled mustangs? Because otherwise, she’s either inflicting a ridiculous amount of pain, or else she might want to consider just turning them out for an hour or two before she gets started.
Why do defenders of woo always seem to resort to the same arguments? “It’s fine if everyone else wants to just use bigger bits and ride in poorly fitting saddles, but I think there’s a better way to do things.” As if there’s no third (or fourth, of ninety-fourth) option.
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This woman is up the road from me (now moving to Florida). She SHOWED nerve release technique to another horse owner. This woman is not a body worker and yet went to a weekend clinic to learn to perform it on client horses. Ugh
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A majority of horses that wind up in these clinics seem to be older horses who have been there and done that. Horses who have a wreck of a body to show for a lifetime of serving humans who typically want to be spoon fed knowledge with a heavy dose of woo.
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Pictured here: what’s actually behind the infamous paywall!
The one in the back clearly has a broken nuchal ligament if he’s able to hold that position
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