See, this is a major ethical dilemma.
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Okay, this made me spit out my coffee 
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You’re wrong. But you are committed to being a victim so I’m not surprised you felt duped. I see the screen caps you’ve posted do NOT show CL saying anything you described(chiefly that ECVM and PSSM aren’t real, or that she personally disparaged vets). Her trainer friend getting defensive on her behalf is NAGL but it’s hardly what you described.
You seem to have a problem with the truth and I’m done talking with you.
For others reading, if you ever had ANY bodywork done on a horse that had chronic pain, you would know that even the lightest touch can make them extremely defensive and agitated. Skilled vets and bodyworkers know that and have the tools to relieve the pain, and know when to stop. One random observer’s interpretation of what she saw during a session with CLL could be wildly out of context and uninformed.
If you saw the first time my horse had bodywork (Masterson) you might describe the same thing in less colorful language (biting, kicking etc), even though the bodyworker was barley touching her. Like, literally maybe resting her finger lightly over a spot, and at one point just standing a distance away. It was bizarre. Very slow and consistent bodywork (with medical treatment and oversight from a very well regarded sports medicine vet) reprogrammed her response to stimulation and decreased her pain. It was scary at times. It was ugly. If you’ve never seen that you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t hero worship my bodyworker but I do respect her talent, patience, and empathy for the animal.
This is clearly not a forum for people who can see the gray in situations. By all means, tell people to avoid this woman and her program! I can continue to keep an open mind about it and encourage people to inquire and think for themselves. Things are NOT as black and white as the professional victims in here claim they are. Of course, black and white thinkers tend to get sucked into cults so the experience of certain posters makes sense to me.
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This horse that was in severe pain from just being lightly touched on his skin and was cured by “bodywork,” what was the underlying cause of his/her pain? What does he/she do for a living now that the pain has been cured?
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Hey, you are free to believe and perceive things however you like, as others have said, more power to you.
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She wasn’t cured with only bodywork—it was kissing spine syndrome with some neck arthritis pain. She had medical treatment (shockwave, mesotherapy, muscle relaxers to start) slow and careful ground work, and ridden rehab after several months. I found that the bodywork was really what helped us push through some plateaus. Chiro made her lame, accupuncture made her mad, slow slow masterson work to kind of reset her brain. I recommend it for tough reactive cases where the pain should be resolved but the behavior lingers (like my vet could palpate her back firmly alll day long and she wouldn’t react … as opposed to the first time he did it and she almost killed him).
She’s now retired from jumping to reduce wear on her neck and spine (kissing spines and neck arthritis), has been doing low level dressage for a year and feeling wonderful. She went from being a super packer to being unrideable. She’s looking better than ever and back to her sweet self under saddle. Regular masterson and good dressage work keeps her happy.
Professional body worker and owner of a rehab facility here.
No body worker worth their salt should be provoking a horse into reacting like that. Ever!
There are far, far more ethical ways of dealing with it. Including the number one of saying what I’m doing is too much today, let’s back off for the minute, not going back even hands off until the horse physically ups the ante and tells the person treating to eff off.
The horse will have been giving out plenty of calming signals prior to getting to shouting point and should be respected, not ignored.
I am sorry your horse was subjected to that, but reading your attitude on here It’s not surprising you think it’s to be lauded.
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Agree! Maybe that happened here once the behavior started. Who knows? we’ve got a second hand account from someone who is …. exuberant … in her writing style, so I’m inclined to take it with a grain of salt.
In my horse’s case, my bodworker absolutely backed off until my horse was ready to accept attention. She spent an entire day with my horse once, letting her just graze nearby and relax with her. Pretty astounding dedication and I’m thankful for her.
Yeah, especially, “The touch of a lover.” That’s just plain over the top icky.
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I’m glad your horse is doing better! But I’m still skeptical about how much (if any at all) of the improvement is really attributable to Celeste’s program. I’d bet my money that the biggest thing that made a difference was time off from what was making her sore, followed by a slow, progressive return to less-demanding work.
Even the mesotherapy, shockwave, etc … I know they’re things a lot of actual vets use, but there isn’t any evidence base that they do anything for horses’ soundness, and the evidence in humans shows that such modalities aren’t really effective (there are plenty of people who will beg to differ, but the science doesn’t back them up). There’s no reason to believe that horses (whose bodies at the end of the day have more in common with ours than not) would be any different.
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Oh no, it wasn’t her program at all! I only found her stuff recently. Just talking about how things can look pretty ugly if you’ve never seen a horse suffering like that.
I’ll never know for sure. I do think getting her comfortable enough to even do any work was the priority—she had time off and it didn’t help at all, eventually brought in the big guns and spent all my pennies to help her. She was the angriest mare I have ever seen. I considered euthanasia.
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She showed that behavior and then the bodyworker backed off.
What am I missing?
Your body worker should have backed off way before your horse was provoked into kicking, biting and the situation getting, as YOU described it - scary & ugly.
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She was finding her limits—I’m sure you have been surprised by a horse you’re unfamiliar with a few times in your career. That was the first time she met her. That was the day she said, let’s just turn her out and talk while we watch her graze.
Run, don’t walk.
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I take on some horses that are in last chance saloon, facing euthanasia for behavioural issues caused by long term pain.
The very last thing I’m going to do is make that horse see me in the same light that it does anyone else who has had their hands on them.
So no, I’m never taken by surprise when I’m treating, I know enough about body language and calming signals to make sure it doesn’t happen.
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You’ve never had a horse kick out or make bitey movements at you? Ever in your career? I am not sure I know anyone who can say the same.
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Not since I started studying equine behaviour which is long before I started doing rehab and hands on therapies, no.
We teach a bodywork modality to students here at my yard and they work on the horses loose in a herd, so every student learns about language, communication, consent and body autonomy before they get their hands on a horse.
It is safer for them and any horses they may treat in future, because they learn to properly assess and read the situation.
If your body worker hasn’t already done so I’d recommend at the very least checking out Rachel Draaisma’s book on the subject of calming signals.
It should be a must read for anyone working with horses.
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