Omg 
Hand to God, I read like the first 6 and the last 10 posts of this thread and did not do any research on this Celeste person before posting my generalized McRant and now watching this Instagram video I am aaaaaabsolutely zero percent surprised
ETA: Lol omg I didn’t even see this was apparently a “progress post” from Day ELEVEN omgggg
Lol!
I think the work probably has some value, I just don’t know if it’s truly revolutionary and worth the big bucks. Seems like something to add in not necessarily be its own program but again it’s hard to decipher what the program actually is!
Shouldn’t a good dressage program give the same results? Emphasis on good dressage program…
Lol I think a good dressage program will give you a lot better results than standing around in the arena unmounted while your horse gets two weeks older and your board and farrier bills do not exactly stand similarly still…
It’s a coping mechanism.
The Klassical programs inevitably attract a very specific population … timid amateurs that do a lot of studying of dressage but lack the athletic ability and bravery to progress in their riding, but who nonetheless are desperate to be considered “serious riders.” To people who struggle mightily to muster up the courage and endurance to canter a 20-meter circle but are offended by being thought of as novices or casual riders, being told that the “road to enlightenment” consists almost entirely of riding at the walk is the perfect out.
So instead of working on their fitness and facing their fear and becoming better riders, they turn their (very serviceably sound) horses into “rehab projects” and they’ll prattle on for hours about how many problems the horses have and how far the horses have come since they started working with them, while rarely going faster than a walk and never riding in shows or “mainstream” clinics. Meanwhile, they take great joy in criticizing nearly any rider doing second level or above, gleefully pointing out every split second where the horse’s nose is behind the vertical or the poll drops a bit and comparing them to 40-year-old black and white photos of Reiner Klimke.
Not to say that others don’t get sucked into training fad groups as well … but this particular demographic is always overrepresented!
Which trainer did these exercises come from?
It happened to me 🫣 I was sucked in by the appeal of lightness and liberty to restart my problem horse. I fell hook, line, and sinker for the thesis that traditional methods are harsh, cruel, and spoil sensitive horses. First thing the trainer did was have her body worker declare the horse unrideable with a host of physical issues and muscle imbalances. Every week I would come out for a check-in, she would demonstrate the horse’s “progress” with such things like… carrot stretches. Literally just carrot stretches. After 60 days of carrot stretches, I asked about having the vet out to do a proper lameness eval and was shut down. Vets apparently just slap a bandaid on problems that only methodical rehab training and bodywork can solve. I’m ashamed to say it took me fully 4 months to involve a vet. By that point, I had noticed that every horse in her training program was suffering from some ailment that necessitated only groundwork, or mostly walk under saddle. Even then, I stayed another 2 months before giving notice. As I left she advised that, if riding was my only goal, I should retire the horse or sell him as a “liberty prospect.” A “liberty prospect” is a horse you can’t ride or even catch in the field, which is just as well because he couldn’t stand tied to tack up even if you did. Conveniently, that’s what 6 months of special biomechanics groundwork training had taught him to be Somehow I still felt bad and guilty about leaving, so much so that several months later, I ended up blocking her on social media because I was starting to post videos of me riding and enjoying my horse, and I was afraid it would hurt her feelings to see it lol. Not that my horse is suddenly perfect, but good grief! He really fell to pieces under her care.
https://www.wildmagicllc.com/traveling-horse-witch
Of course, this is just a snippet of someone following the work, So it’s hard to say if it’s an accurate representation or not.
I will say there was improvement in the riding videos I skimmed on the Instagram account. But again I’m not sure that those cannot have been achieved with a good dressage program too.
I do follow some blogs of people that do actually ride and all of them were decently accomplished or at least capable. One I believe is a bronze or silver medalist and another was approaching third level and seemed competent.
But to me it seems like the biggest difference is a letting the horse go a little more open in the throat latch and out in the neck. Which is not super mind blowing and there’s plenty of good Dressage trainers that advocate that in more traditional work.
The link was from Celeste herself with a endorsement quote from a vet. Do any of the blogs you follow talk more in detail about the work? Riding open is fine, the horses pictured in the program have lovely Training level frames. Do those horses make it back to 3rd or higher?
I know nothing of the program. That’s why I started the thread here 
It’s really hard to know anything when you have to pay a couple hundred bucks to find out anything about a program.
Like it was mentioned above, it sounds like it is highly discouraged to talk about the work in any detail outside of the paid group.
Does anybody know how many people are in the masterclass group?
Found it. 1,800 members in the masterclass Facebook group. At $150 per person for access to Facebook group, she’s certainly not going broke. That doesn’t even count the private or phone sessions.
Sounds like Fight Club. At least with Legerete you have the “Phillipe Karl” name attached! (Sorry for the snarkiness – I have a friend that was briefly caught up in it.) Apologies that I seem to be repeating what was said upthread. If nothing else, I can confirm that it seems to be a scam that targets a certain demographic, and seems to be quite successful at it too!
Since it’s been a few months since I started this thread with some other cothers that have been using this method want to chime in with how it’s going? Like other posters have asked, have you been able to implement this work and continue on with mid to higher level Dressage work?
@Training_Cupid @sportyspicepony @Feathered_Feet @no.stirrups ?
So many people have had good things to say about it so there must be some merit to it. I think the question is is it worth the high prices and secrecy. I see nothing wrong with being in tune with your horse’s posture and biomechanics. But curious how things go after the first month or so? Do you just continually add this in occasionally? Or does it just progress to ridden work after that? I’m sure it’s horse dependent.
My horse is recovering from PSD surgery a few months ago so no ridden work yet. But I do feel like it’s something I’ll continue with in my training (assuming the horse makes a full recovery and gets back to work). I say this as an FEI rider with a self-trained FEI horse with FEI scores in the upper 60s/low 70s. So, I think I have enough to experience to comment on things like this, and I say the Balance Through Movement Method (BTMM) is an excellent tool in the dressage rider’s toolbox. I can definitely say I will use these tools with the next (and any) horse I buy in the future.
That being said, I’m not going through the pillars exactly the way Celeste does it. I’m more concerned with teaching the horse to turn off the brachiocephalicus (her Pillar 1, step 1) and keeping it off as much as possible (at liberty, work, etc.). I think there’s a lot of value to teaching the horse that they can exist and move through the world without this muscle engaged. I think correct dressage is very good at teaching the horse to engage the thoracic sling (keeping in mind a lot of trainers aren’t “correct” in their training, but that’s another story), but many are less explicit about turning off the brachiocephalicus. Contemporary dressage just kind of assumes that will happen if it’s done correctly. And a good trainer that knows what they are doing will train the horse to work without the brachiocephalicus engaged just as a matter of course. But poor and mediocre trainers don’t, and a lot of “dressage” horses continue to move through the world (including under tack!) with the brachiocephalicus engaged, or engaged when things get hard (exhibit A: the rein back in 95% of horses, at any level).
The primary advantage of this method, in my opinion, is the explicit calling out of this incorrect (and damaging) way of moving, and the emphasis on how to fix it (i.e., leading the horse to relaxation, helping them figure out how to turn the brachiocephalicus off, and helping them figure out how to keep it off while moving through the world). I have found this to be very, very valuable, as no other trainer I’ve seen or worked with has ever emphasized this quite this much and to this degree (and I’ve ridden with lots, including a handful of very BNTs).
I’m probably not going to do much with the second part of pillar 1 (teaching the horse to lift through the withers/thoracic sling with the brachiocephalicus turned off) and pillar 2 (teaching the horse to adduct the forelegs while also in pillar 1), as I know how to do that through the in-hand and under saddle dressage work I do. I don’t really even know what pillar 3 is lol. (And for all of you asking what the “secret” is, there, I just told you, in these last three paragraphs. It really is that simple. Celeste’s method just guides and encourages you to really seek out this relaxation and way of moving at a deeper level than you probably realized was possible.)
As someone said above, the materials are sometimes a little hard to follow, and the group is pretty free form. You can learn stuff from it, but you have to wade through a lot of “junk” posts (e.g., “look, my horse is in pillar 1!” when the horse just has its head down eating). If you have the money it might be smarter to just pay for a 1:1 with Celeste or one of her trainers. That being said, I’ve learned a lot from the group, but I could probably learn a lot more from a 1:1. I’m considering it in the future once my horse heals from the surgery and gets a little closer to being back in work.
I guess in summary: it’s a really useful perspective and I think it can help a lot of horses and their people. Is it the only way to ride? Of course not. BNTs like Sabine, Steffen, Olivia, etc. won’t need to do this since they know how to train dressage horses and likely intuitively know to address brachiocephalicus engagement early in training and engage the thoracic sling tissues. But a lot of less-experienced trainers and amateurs can almost certainly benefit from this perspective. Again, it’s not a cure-all, but I think it’s an excellent tool to keep in your toolbox.
That being said, I really hate that the group is also turning into a free-for-all for natural horse husbandry. E.g., people asking about “natural” remedies for xyz. I wish they just stuck to biomechanics questions and issues, as that is Celeste’s expertise, and why I’m in the group. But I guess I don’t make the rules 
edit: forgot to add how I’ve incorporated this. At first, I did it a bit every day from the ground (horse was laid up while waiting for surgery, so not much else to do, anyway). 5-10 min max per day to teach the relaxation part. Now I don’t do it as explicitly (we’re just in the hand walking phase), but I do try to do our hand walks with the brachiocephalicus off, and keeping it off during our time together. Celeste does emphasize that at first, 10-15 min max of the work, tops. I don’t think she expects folks to stop all training while you teach your horse to turn off the brachiocephalicus. If you can, great, but I think most people want to ride, so there’s a practicality there. So I do think it’s something that could be incorporated into your day-to-day routine without disrupting your current work. I do ask my horse to turn off the brachiocephalicus when I’m with her while grooming, etc. I don’t let her stand or walk with it engaged unless there’s something that requires her to be on high-alert. (But it’s an “ask” to turn the brachiocephalicus off, not a “tell”. Once you start “telling” the horse how to carry themselves you jeopardize the brachiocephalic relaxation that is the foundation of this approach.)
caveat: I’m not a trainer, so I hope I’ve represented the BTMM correctly. Others in the group, feel free to correct me!
My horse passed away from colic right after I had reached out to Celeste for a virtual consultation </3 I would definitely say I had reached a point of desperation to help her feel comfortable in her body because she had chronic suspensory tears that I suspected were not being helped by her posture and conformation and I hve no one in my area that I knew of to help me with biomechanics and groundwork to set her up for success in her rehab. Unfortunately we will never know 
Thank you so much for such a detail breakdown and your thoughts on it. I appreciate it!
Oh gosh. I’m so so sorry. I think you had mentioned that and I missed it going back. I apologize. Still appreciate you sharing here about it.
It’s ok! I’ve since started a partial lease on a dressage mare that is very trained but had some time off and is out of shape and have often wondered what kind of bodily disfunction might be going on with her, and wishing I had the skills / knowledge to do something about it. It sucks to hear that people haven’t found value in the fb group but I could see how that would be a very difficult way to learn; I feel like I’d definitely need in person instruction and demonstration for that.
Thanks. This is the first time someone has spelled out the purpose of the program in real words. Does sound like there is some logic behind it. But did you learn how to implement the approach in the masterclass or do you have to pay yet more for a one on one too.
The masterclass is meant to teach you how to implement it. But as was mentioned above by other posters, the materials can be a bit unstructured so it requires some wading around. But Celeste and her approved trainers are pretty good about commenting on peoples’ videos and posts, which can help refine your eye. If you’re more advanced they often recommend a 1:1 also ( but you can definitely get started and learn a lot from just the Facebook masterclass).
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